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Calculating tooltip damage issues

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Calculating tooltip damage issues

fire-breath's Avatar

03.13.2014 , 09:57 AM | #1
Atm I'm busy making a spreadsheet which I can use to min max a sentinel. I'm however running into a few problems when calculating tooltip damage. I know some tooltips may contain errors and such but I don't there are that much errors.
Hopefully you guys can provide me with some info about the issues and where I went wrong.

The 1st problem is torhead and its coefficient data. For example:
- Twin Saber Trow
The only data torhead is giving is an amount modifier percent of 0,19. The rest is just not there. This means that either:
a. Torhead isnt up to date
b. TST only makes use of the weapondamage and ignores bonusdamage modifiers and standardhealth
Either of these seems weird and very to me since tooltip damage is not correct without it. This same problem goes for Precision slash, cauterize (only the direct damage part) and merciless slash. All 3 abilities are melee.

The 2nd problem I ran into is about tooltips not coinciding with my calculations.

Assuming the following stats

Lets start with an abilty which tooltip is the same as my calculations:
- slash
torhead states: amount mod 0.02, coefficient 1.54, standardhealth% 0.153, (assuming 2685 standard health)
the tooltip should be 2632 min - 3016 max feel free to check the formula below but the outcome I got was correct for this one
minimum damage
( 1 + 0% ) * 1 * ( ( 0.02 + 1 ) * 515 + (0.02 + 1 ) * 515 * 0,66 + 1.54 * 875.9 + 0.153 * 2685)

- masterstrike
next up, masterstrike. Fun one with the last hit hitting for a double amount.
torhead states:
1st and 2nd hit - am -0.075, coe 1.39, shp 0.139 (assuming 2685 sh)
3rd hit - am 0.85, coe 2.78, shp 0.278 (assuming 2685 sh)
tooltip states 8066 - 9349

4763 = (1+0%) * 2 * ( ( -0.075 + 1 ) * 515 + ( -0.075 +1 ) * 515 * 0.66 + 1.39 * 875.9 + 0.139 * 2685 )
4763 = (1+0%) * 1 * ( ( 0.85 + 1 ) * 515 + ( 0.85 + 1 ) * 515 * 0.66 + 2.78 * 875.9 + 0.278 * 2685 )
9526 = total

If when I use the old 1680 for lv50 skills I still sit way to much damage (8967)
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs

PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer


03.13.2014 , 03:11 PM | #2
Hi. I am the creator of the "Acc vs surge" thread, which is where I worked out some gear guidelines as 2.0 launched: I am also pretty familiar with arpen:

I have created an example of a spreadsheet routine that'll gather your coefficients and will permit you to verify they are accurate. It takes significantly more time than pulling directly from torhead, but as you have found, the torhead coefficients are incorrect with distressing regularity.

Here is an example of my spread sheet:

For anyone who doesn't know, SWTOR tooltip mean values can be predicted pretty accurately as bonus damage*bonus coefficient + base, where bonus damage will be either your melee or force bonus damage, depending upon the damage type of your attack.

Steps to deriving bonus coefficient and base:
  • 1. note your melee and force bonus damage for each attack that you want to find a coefficient for
  • 2. note the tooltip min and max damage of each attack that you want to find a coefficient for, and calculate the average of that min and max
  • 3. remove some gear
  • 4. go back to step 1 at least twice
  • 5. now you can compute change in average damage / 1 melee/force bonus damage. Let's note all min/max averages and bonus damages as pairs (p, q) = (average, bonus damage). Then your change in average damage / an increase of 1 bonus damage = (p2 - p1) / (q2 - q1) where p2 has both a higher min/max mean and a higher bonus damage
  • 6. if you returned to step 1 multiple times, you have multiple changes in average damage / 1 unit of bonus damage. You can now take the mean of whatever changes in average damage / 1 unit of bonus damage values you computed
  • 7. now that we have pretty solid changes in average damage / 1 unit of bonus damage values, we can figure out base values as well. Since min/max average ~= bonus damage * bonus coefficient + base, we can pick any pair of (mean damage, bonus damage) that we already found from our tooltips and subtract the bonus damage * bonus coefficient, where bonus coefficient was the value we just found with our spreadsheet. The end value should be our base.
  • 8. Sanity check: Strip off all your gear except your mainhand and offhand weapons. Remove all mods from mainhand and offhand except the hilts, then recheck your tooltip spreads for each attack and your melee/force bonus damage. Your mean of tooltip spreads should still be quite close to base + bonus damage * bonus coefficient

However, note that sometimes the game's tooltip damage spreads are not correct. I think this is true of Mind Crush on Sages, Shadows, Sorcerors, and Assassins of all specs, as well as Project/Shock for Shadows/Assassins (in the case of Project/Shock, the Shadow's Training buff is not factored into the damage spread in the tooltip for Project/Shock. Take whatever is reported in the tooltip and add ~650 to it.)

fire-breath's Avatar

03.14.2014 , 12:49 AM | #3
Hey mgn, Thanks for reply

I will check out later today, I can't right now. Like you said ... torhead is nice but tough to use at times.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs

PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer

oofalong's Avatar

03.14.2014 , 12:43 PM | #4
Read this.

The values for TST are:
  • Coefficient is 1.79
  • Std Health Amounts are 0.179
  • MH & OH Modifier are 0.19

Master Strike's Tooltip is confusing for sure. The final OH hit does not suffer the OH penalty. I will try to review the math/formula you presented when I have more time.
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