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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 08:29 PM | #4341
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
WoW's Level 90 boost is also included with the purchase of their 6.0 expansion. I'll ask you a similar question - would you be comfortable with a free Level 50 ( previous level cap boost ) for everyone that purchases ROTHC?

As for Rift's soul system, is it very much comparable to Advanced Classes in SWTOR. You select your souls while leveling your class which provide access to the soul trees. These can be changed at anytime.

Let's imagine a world if Rift did not allow Soul swapping, and people requested it:

Using your logic:
  • You didn't level with the Shaman soul, so you won't know how to play it at cap.
  • Bladedancers are overpowered, everyone will FOTM to one if they allow soul swapping
  • I leveled two Clerics, if you want a Shaman soul, then level another Cleric.

Yet here we are, Soul Swapping exists, and does not ruin that game. Rift Souls and TOR Advanced Classes are very similar features. TOR is ( for now ) more restrictive. The developers should reevaluate this design decision, as myself and others feel it would be a great addition to the game.

To claim that this game was not designed around Advanced Class swapping is a false statement.

I recall in beta the developers changing their stance on it several times. Before release ( around Nov 2011 ) they indicated there would be an AC change feature with an increasing cost as your character gained levels. The last communication from the developers on this issue is that it would "likely happen".
With a purchase of RotHC? No. You do not get a boost to 90 for purchasing any of the previous or even the current expansion in WoW. You only get the boost with purchase of the upcoming expansion.

Now if BW were to release a new expansion with a raised level cap and offered a free boost to 55 with the purchase of the NEW expansion, and offered boosts to 55 on the CM for 8000 coins (about $60), then tghat would be a fair comparison.

If I recall correctly, even in BETA you could not initially change your AC, thus indicating that the original design (from the ground up) intent was for it to be permanent. They later made some statements that they would allow AC changes, but due to feedback on the forums and the results of polls conducted by BW, they decided to keep the AC's as a permanent decision. They also made many changes to the interface of the selection process and added multiple warnings from multiple NPC's that the choice was PERMANENT.

Once you start down a path, forever will it control your destiny.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 08:34 PM | #4342
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
That about sums it up.

There's no impact on anyone else if someone wants to switch their AC.

There's a possible minor impact on EA/Bioware's bottom line. Anyone who desperately wants to switch a Shadow to a Sage may potentially not play as long as they would if they had to re-level, but EA/Bioware have shown little concern at all about allowing people to speed their way through the game for cash.
It will also affect BW's bottom line with the loss of subscribers if they allow class changes. You can try to fool yourself all you want, but allowing class changes WILL cost them subs. As I said, only BW can make the determination if the possibility of revenue from those who might pay again if they allow class changes is worth the risk of losing those ARE paying now and would no longer be doing so if they allow class changes.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 08:43 PM | #4343
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
The effect to EA/Bioware's bottom line only applies if the player is a subscriber. With the hybrid model the length of time someone spends playing a character and not paying a subscription also has a minor impact on the bottom line.

Ideally what you want to achieve is a sense that time invested in any character you play is not wasted time. I would imagine the potential for a preferred/f2p player to use the AC swap function to remain playing their character is higher than them going back to level one and levelling up an alt.
I'm just curious, but if the player is F2P or preferred and NOT paying a subscription, what difference does it make how long they play if they are NOT paying the subscription?

Even if they offer class changes on the CM, the revenue that they would receive from a F2P or preferred who wishes to change their class would NOT be equal to the loss of recurring revenue from a single subscription.

Seldan's Avatar


Seldan
03.12.2014 , 08:45 PM | #4344
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Once you start down a path, forever will it control your destiny.
Hey now, Anakin faction changed twice, and he did an AC Change from Guardian to Sentinel while in combat! ( Haxx imo ).


Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
With a purchase of RotHC? No. You do not get a boost to 90 for purchasing any of the previous or even the current expansion in WoW. You only get the boost with purchase of the upcoming expansion.

Now if BW were to release a new expansion with a raised level cap and offered a free boost to 55 with the purchase of the NEW expansion, and offered boosts to 55 on the CM for 8000 coins (about $60), then tghat would be a fair comparison.
This is a correct and very fair comparison.

Based on that price point, what would you consider a fair price for an AC Change? $30 / 3500 Cartel Coins ( which I believe is around 3.5 Million Credits ). That feature with one month cooldown would be very reasonable in my opinion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
If I recall correctly, even in BETA you could not initially change your AC, thus indicating that the original design (from the ground up) intent was for it to be permanent. They later made some statements that they would allow AC changes, but due to feedback on the forums and the results of polls conducted by BW, they decided to keep the AC's as a permanent decision. They also made many changes to the interface of the selection process and added multiple warnings from multiple NPC's that the choice was PERMANENT.
My point is the fact they changed their stance a few times in beta, which means there isn't a massive technical hurdle to provide this feature. There are some technical challenges yes, but we addressed some of those in this thread.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 08:51 PM | #4345
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
some people don't enjoy playing the same story twice, just like they don't reread books or rewatch movies.
some people have very limited time to play and rather than reroll, they might just leave the game all together for something that lets them play what they do enjoy. just to name a couple. just becasue you cannot relate personally - doesn't make it invalid.

above was a suggestion to make it $20, limit it to 3 changes per character, and add a one month cooldown before you can change back. I'd say that takes care of "flash of the month" concerns nicely AND potentially makes bioware some profit.
For those that "don't want to do the same story twice" there are alternate means of leveling. True, they will have to do the story to get the story line companions, but this could be done once they reach max level and can faceroll the class story. There are two companions available without doing the story line. Between these two companions, any companion role could be filled, DPS, tank or heals.

Since there is NO time limit on leveling, everyone has the time to level a new character. It's not like you only have two weeks to level and your character is deleted if you don't get to level cap in that time, or that your character is stuck at whatever level they reach in those two weeks. Claiming "limited time" is simply an excuse.

If you think adding a limit of three class changes, one class change or any other limit would work, I would direct your attention to this thread and the countless others clamoring to get the current restrictions on class changes lifted or changed. I've said it before, but if you give a mouse a cookie...

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 08:56 PM | #4346
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
novelists and directors come up with new stories to enjoy - that take a LOT less time to enjoy than leveling the same class - and movies and novels have an ending, while playing an MMO doesn't really, as you don't just abandon a character at 55, usually, you get them to 55 so that you could continue to play them at 55. but the comparison was NOT used to compare media, but rather illustrate the mindset of a person who doesn't enjoy repetitive stories.

last I checked its a game as well - its a hobby. and some people have limited time to enjoy their hobbies. and you are telling them basically, that they are SoL when it comes to this particular hobby, just because they made a choice before having all the information (how the class plays) and have to start over... and spend hours and hours and HOURS doing something unenjoyable, just to try the other AC. and this being a game and a hobby? WHY exactly AC is such serious business that it MUST be a permanent choice?

and there will always be people who complain. that's a fact of life. but those restrictions are a compromise between having NO option and having SOME option. but you'd rather have nothing that something in a middle, it seems.
Again, I point to WoW, as well as many other MMO's, in which your choose your class at CREATION. Do you get to change your class in WoW, GW2 or most other MMO's despite the fact that you make your class choice before you have all the information (how the class plays), or do you have to level a new character with the new class you want to play?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.12.2014 , 09:12 PM | #4347
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
Hey now, Anakin faction changed twice, and he did an AC Change from Guardian to Sentinel while in combat! ( Haxx imo ).




This is a correct and very fair comparison.

Based on that price point, what would you consider a fair price for an AC Change? $30 / 3500 Cartel Coins ( which I believe is around 3.5 Million Credits ). That feature with one month cooldown would be very reasonable in my opinion.



My point is the fact they changed their stance a few times in beta, which means there isn't a massive technical hurdle to provide this feature. There are some technical challenges yes, but we addressed some of those in this thread.
As I have said before, I do not believe that ANY restrictions they place on class changing will make any difference. We already have a limit on the number of times you can change your class. That limit is zero, but look at this thread and the countless others clamoring for that restriction to be changed or lifted entirely.


If they put a one month cool down on them, the forums would simply have threads clamoring for the reduction of the cool down. If they charged $30, or even $40 or $60, the forums would be full of people crying for a reduction in price. If they limited it to a certain number of changes, the cries would be for that limit to be removed or changed, yet again.


If they gave an inch regarding class changes, it would never be enough, and people would demand a mile.

PeterTLJr's Avatar


PeterTLJr
04.07.2014 , 11:44 PM | #4348
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Again, I point to WoW, as well as many other MMO's, in which your choose your class at CREATION. Do you get to change your class in WoW, GW2 or most other MMO's despite the fact that you make your class choice before you have all the information (how the class plays), or do you have to level a new character with the new class you want to play?
Point to WoW all you want. No one is asking for their Jedi Consular to become a Jedi Knight. That is class changing. We want to be able to switch our advance class. You know, like going from a guardian to a sentinel. A Vanguard to a Commando. Its really no different then a feral druid switching to a moonkin or tree. Its no different then a enhancement shaman switching to elemental.
In order to appreciate the Light, you must spend time in the Darkness.
Peace will win and fear will lose.

Xienive's Avatar


Xienive
04.07.2014 , 11:58 PM | #4349
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Again, I point to WoW, as well as many other MMO's, in which your choose your class at CREATION. Do you get to change your class in WoW, GW2 or most other MMO's despite the fact that you make your class choice before you have all the information (how the class plays), or do you have to level a new character with the new class you want to play?
I point to EQII and SWG where you could change your class. Sure enough, those other games do make you level a new character for a new class, that's true. However how many of their classes share half of their movesets and a whole skill tree? It may even be a skill tree that is useless to your class because it is only ever really balanced for your mirror (Madness sin, Lethality Op)
No disintegrations!
As you wish...

Manweth's Avatar


Manweth
04.08.2014 , 02:06 AM | #4350
Just create a char of opposing gender.

Bioware RPG for gods sake, play more chars.
Manw, Vigilance Guardian, Manticore, Red Eclipse
Gate Crasher, Dread Master, Eternal Warrior and all that stuff...