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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
03.12.2014 , 11:02 AM | #4311
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
some people don't enjoy playing the same story twice, just like they don't reread books or rewatch movies.
Assuming novelists or film directors are not to be held responsable, let alone address it, why should Bioware?

If some people do not enjoy playing the same storyline more than once, it's their prerogative, not something the game should address per se.

Quote:
some people have very limited time to play and rather than reroll, they might just leave the game all together for something that lets them play what they do enjoy. just to name a couple. just becasue you cannot relate personally - doesn't make it invalid.
Last I checked, this is a game.

Having in mind it's a game, it's something which SHOULD be perceived as a hobby. Being a hobby, it's not a full-time job or the Olympic games, where people are in a hurry to reach the finish line I believe.

Quote:
above was a suggestion to make it $20, limit it to 3 changes per character, and add a one month cooldown before you can change back. I'd say that takes care of "flash of the month" concerns nicely AND potentially makes bioware some profit.
Doubtful. Fairly sure there would be those who would complain over such silly restrictions, just like we have people who complain over the fact they can't change their AC midgame.
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Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
03.12.2014 , 11:02 AM | #4312
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Would you also approve of base class swapping? For all intents and purposes, one AC is functionally different from another in terms of game mechanics. Stealth characters play enormously differently from say, a sniper/slinger. Mercs vs PTs are a ranged class as opposed to a melee class. So on and so forth.
different specs are functionally very different, with different abilities and priorities. healer plays very differently from a tank plays very differently from dps.

are you against talent respecs too now?

base class swapping is a different ball game, not because of mechanics as much as it is because of the stories and companions. there are too many complex flags involved that make base class unique. to the point where even mirror class swapping would be inadvisable, even if you would be playing the same exact spec and wouldn't need to relearn or regear anything.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.12.2014 , 11:04 AM | #4313
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Would you also approve of base class swapping? For all intents and purposes, one AC is functionally different from another in terms of game mechanics. Stealth characters play enormously differently from say, a sniper/slinger. Mercs vs PTs are a ranged class as opposed to a melee class. So on and so forth.
Me personally? I honestly don't care at all. Do I think it would be a good addition to the game? Not especially...the Class is much more complex than AC - Classes are a whole different story and companions. AC's aren't.
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CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
03.12.2014 , 11:06 AM | #4314
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Would you also approve of base class swapping? For all intents and purposes, one AC is functionally different from another in terms of game mechanics. Stealth characters play enormously differently from say, a sniper/slinger. Mercs vs PTs are a ranged class as opposed to a melee class. So on and so forth.
It's a non-competitive game that is super-easy to level in, no matter what class you play.

If you're cool with the concept of the Cash Shop, I don't see any difference between buying swag, swapping classes, or even buying an "instant max level" button. The Cash Shop is all about offering instant gratification vs attaining these things through game play. Same difference if its armor, a mount, a crystal or your class/level.
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Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
03.12.2014 , 11:07 AM | #4315
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
different specs are functionally very different, with different abilities and priorities. healer plays very differently from a tank plays very differently from dps.

are you against talent respecs too now?

base class swapping is a different ball game, not because of mechanics as much as it is because of the stories and companions. there are too many complex flags involved that make base class unique. to the point where even mirror class swapping would be inadvisable, even if you would be playing the same exact spec and wouldn't need to relearn or regear anything.
In a DPS spec, a merc can still heal. In a tank spec, an assassin can still stealth and maul. Each AC can focus on one particular thing at any given time with their spec, but they're still capable of using many of the abilities that are the core of their other trees(though that may be suboptimal).

For base class swapping, you have mechanical difficulties with story flags. For AC swapping, you have mechanical difficulties with gearing. Juggs/Guardians use heavy armor, marauders/sents do not. Mercs/mandos don't use generators like vanguards do. There will be technical complications in either situation.


Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
It's a non-competitive game that is super-easy to level in, no matter what class you play.

If you're cool with the concept of the Cash Shop, I don't see any difference between buying swag, swapping classes, or even buying an "instant max level" button. The Cash Shop is all about offering instant gratification vs attaining these things through game play. Same difference if its armor, a mount, a crystal or your class/level.
I actually find that to be an internally consistent argument(as opposed to the idea that we should be able to choose what functions we want for characters in some circumstances, but not in others).


Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Me personally? I honestly don't care at all. Do I think it would be a good addition to the game? Not especially...the Class is much more complex than AC - Classes are a whole different story and companions. AC's aren't.

What if the class story and companions were retained, but you simply switch mechanics? Have a mercenary dual-wielding vibroswords.
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Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
03.12.2014 , 11:08 AM | #4316
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Assuming novelists or film directors are not to be held responsable, let alone address it, why should Bioware?

If some people do not enjoy playing the same storyline more than once, it's their prerogative, not something the game should address per se.



Last I checked, this is a game.

Having in mind it's a game, it's something which SHOULD be perceived as a hobby. Being a hobby, it's not a full-time job or the Olympic games, where people are in a hurry to reach the finish line I believe.



Doubtful. Fairly sure there would be those who would complain over such silly restrictions, just like we have people who complain over the fact they can't change their AC midgame.
novelists and directors come up with new stories to enjoy - that take a LOT less time to enjoy than leveling the same class - and movies and novels have an ending, while playing an MMO doesn't really, as you don't just abandon a character at 55, usually, you get them to 55 so that you could continue to play them at 55. but the comparison was NOT used to compare media, but rather illustrate the mindset of a person who doesn't enjoy repetitive stories.

last I checked its a game as well - its a hobby. and some people have limited time to enjoy their hobbies. and you are telling them basically, that they are SoL when it comes to this particular hobby, just because they made a choice before having all the information (how the class plays) and have to start over... and spend hours and hours and HOURS doing something unenjoyable, just to try the other AC. and this being a game and a hobby? WHY exactly AC is such serious business that it MUST be a permanent choice?

and there will always be people who complain. that's a fact of life. but those restrictions are a compromise between having NO option and having SOME option. but you'd rather have nothing that something in a middle, it seems.

Halinalle's Avatar


Halinalle
03.12.2014 , 11:10 AM | #4317
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
I must be lucky in the PUGs I join. My DPS Powertech (Advanced Prototype) has not once been asked to swap out to Tank. (something I could do at a moments notice with no cost, and I even have a near maxed set of tanking gear as well)

I don't understand why it would be an issue with AC swapping when it doesn't appear to be an issue with current specialisation.

The worst scenario I've encountered is when a member of the PUG volunteers to go Tank or Healer just to get the FP/ OP off the ground. All the times this has happened in my experience has been initiated by the player and never demanded by the group.
"Switch to [that other AC] now or get kicked" scenario doesn't happen now because there's no way to change AC. If it was allowed then most of the players in groups want to optimize the run: get most effective combination of ACs to complete FP/Operation as fast as possible. Actually it already happens in operations, the main reason why GF doesn't pop up for Operations ever.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.12.2014 , 11:12 AM | #4318
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
Would you also approve of base class swapping? For all intents and purposes, one AC is functionally different from another in terms of game mechanics. Stealth characters play enormously differently from say, a sniper/slinger. Mercs vs PTs are a ranged class as opposed to a melee class. So on and so forth.
I know I'm going to sound a hypocrite here, but in SWTOR's current game design I would not be an advocate for Class swapping.

SWTOR launched on the power of the Class story, this personal journey where the choices you make makes a difference. How well they delivered on that promise is a further matter of debate.

A Sith Warrior's story is very definitely not the story of the Bounty Hunter or the Jedi Knight.
The Class story holds within it the full identity of the character from appearance customisation options to the core companions you get to keep.
There is also a heavy technical issue to overcome with the resetting of data flag tracking as you progress through a story (the reason you can get a species change but not a gender change as story data is different for gender, romance options etc...)

If SWTOR had been less tied to the Class story and a less linear game I would have no problem with a potential system that allowed you to focus on different roles at different times of your play history.
Start off as a Republic Trooper but reject the orders of your generals and strike out for personal wealth as a Bounty Hunter before discovering a modicum of force sensitivity and the lure of the dark side in the Imperial slave pens that you are able to escape as a Sith Inquisitor before finally being redeemed by the Republic and ending your days as a Jedi Knight.
But, SWTOR is not really about the story YOU want to create with your character but about playing through the story Bioware want to tell.

However, to say that choosing to pick up two blast pistols (mercenary) instead of one (powertech) as a Bounty Hunter is some how beyond the scope of reasoning and goes against everything MMOs stand for is slightly baffling to me

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
03.12.2014 , 11:13 AM | #4319
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
In a DPS spec, a merc can still heal. In a tank spec, an assassin can still stealth and maul. Each AC can focus on one particular thing at any given time with their spec, but they're still capable of using many of the abilities that are the core of their other trees(though that may be suboptimal).

For base class swapping, you have mechanical difficulties with story flags. For AC swapping, you have mechanical difficulties with gearing. Juggs/Guardians use heavy armor, marauders/sents do not. Mercs/mandos don't use generators like vanguards do. There will be technical complications in either situation.
assassins still you lightning and shock and dots, as those are class features, NOT AC

all bounty hunters can use sticky grenades and death from above and flame thrower and a few other things. its base class features, not AC.

so... it may be suboptimal, but they can STILL use those abilities. mechanical difficulties with gearing are absolutely negligible. only knights/warriors are subject to different armor rating if they are NOT wearing adoptive armor, they can just move the mods around. if they ARE wearing adoptive armor, they just need to get a new offhand. higher level you are, the cheaper empty moddable offhands get. it takes FAR more effort to regear between tank and dps or healer and dps than it would to regear a dps that used to be a vanguard and is now a commando for example.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
03.12.2014 , 11:16 AM | #4320
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
assassins still you lightning and shock and dots, as those are class features, NOT AC

all bounty hunters can use sticky grenades and death from above and flame thrower and a few other things. its base class features, not AC.

so... it may be suboptimal, but they can STILL use those abilities. mechanical difficulties with gearing are absolutely negligible. only knights/warriors are subject to different armor rating if they are NOT wearing adoptive armor, they can just move the mods around. if they ARE wearing adoptive armor, they just need to get a new offhand. higher level you are, the cheaper empty moddable offhands get. it takes FAR more effort to regear between tank and dps or healer and dps than it would to regear a dps that used to be a vanguard and is now a commando for example.
Merc healers to Merc dps all benefit from the same stats, which means easier regearing than the example you had. My point had less to do with regearing, and more to do with the issues of invalid items in slots and whatnot. We're talking a lot of technical difficulty either way. Why not allow players to use the mechanics from other classes?
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