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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Lugosi's Avatar


Lugosi
03.11.2014 , 08:23 PM | #4271
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
When I was a kid, we didn't unlock sprint until level 14! We had to walk everywhere. And liked it!

We couldn't drive until we were 25 either.
Bargain not with the darkness, in time it will take us all.
Arms of the Abyss
Ilith - Akhroma - Molybdenum

Seldan's Avatar


Seldan
03.11.2014 , 08:32 PM | #4272
Quote: Originally Posted by Lugosi View Post
I still don't understand why people can't just level a different class if they want to play a different class. Sure, it won't affect my game play, but it's also not affecting anyone to leave it as it is and level a class to 55 like everyone else had to.

I cannot speak for others, but I have a Gunslinger, Scoundrel, and Operative ( and several other classes ). I support AC changes because I believe it is overall healthy for the game to provide more options for its players.

To answer your question, consider:
  • The player that decides they do not enjoy their level 35 Vanguard, and would like to experience the Commando AC without replaying 35 levels.
  • Someone that has an abandoned character, e.g. a Level 50 Sentinel they have not played since 1.4 They have no desire to start again from level 1, however the option to change to a Guardian has renewed their interest in the character.
  • One that is bored of their 55 alt, has no desire to do the same class quests, same planetary arcs, or grind GSF/KDY, but is curious in the play style of the other AC.

These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.

ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
03.11.2014 , 08:37 PM | #4273
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.
And of course, there's the peer pressure of guilds demanding that you switch to the FOTM side so that you aren't hampering their progression, or PUGs that demand you switch so you can provide your alternate classes utility role, even if you don't have the gear for it ...

The option to swap ACs gives people something else they can unrealistically expect you to do.
Best way to end Smuggler Act 1 is
Spoiler

You can't make up stuff like that.

Lugosi's Avatar


Lugosi
03.11.2014 , 08:55 PM | #4274
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
I cannot speak for others, but I have a Gunslinger, Scoundrel, and Operative ( and several other classes ). I support AC changes because I believe it is overall healthy for the game to provide more options for its players.

To answer your question, consider:
  • The player that decides they do not enjoy their level 35 Vanguard, and would like to experience the Commando AC without replaying 35 levels.
  • Someone that has an abandoned character, e.g. a Level 50 Sentinel they have not played since 1.4 They have no desire to start again from level 1, however the option to change to a Guardian has renewed their interest in the character.
  • One that is bored of their 55 alt, has no desire to do the same class quests, same planetary arcs, or grind GSF/KDY, but is curious in the play style of the other AC.

These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.
You have some valid points. I suppose it would be nice if players could test the waters so to speak. I'm just not convinced letting people switch AC is the way to go. Maybe, a slight maybe, if it was a one time switch.

It could be "renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue", which of course is good, but you have to weigh that against how many people would have spent that extra sub time and money to level from 1 to 50. You could say that is lost revenue because they found a faster way and spent less time in the game. It's hard to say without the proper metrics.

It's a slippery slope, but your reasoning is pretty sound.
Bargain not with the darkness, in time it will take us all.
Arms of the Abyss
Ilith - Akhroma - Molybdenum

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.11.2014 , 08:56 PM | #4275
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I only see 8 classes listed here and here.

Here's an excerpt from the 2nd link:

Please note the highlighted yellow portion - according to Bioware, each class has a UNIQUE story. I think that safely excludes "Advanced Classes" from being called "Classes".
Try doing a /who in fleet. Tell me how many characters over level 10 have their class listed as BOUNTY HUNTER. How many characters over level 10 have their class listed as MERCENARY or POWERTECH? I'm betting there are 0 characters over level 10 with bounty hunter as their class and many with either mercenary or powertech. This tells me that the devs see powertech and mercenary as DIFFERENT classes. If they were the same class and just a different spec, wouldn't the class be bounty hunter?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.11.2014 , 08:59 PM | #4276
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Right - it already happens so if you want to avoid bad players start your own group with known players or solo. The ability to change AC would have no bigger impact than me specing heals when all I've done is DPS.
The fact that something undesirable happens now is not a reason to increase the likelihood of that undesirable situation occurring.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.11.2014 , 09:02 PM | #4277
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Try doing a /who in fleet. Tell me how many characters over level 10 have their class listed as BOUNTY HUNTER. How many characters over level 10 have their class listed as MERCENARY or POWERTECH? I'm betting there are 0 characters over level 10 with bounty hunter as their class and many with either mercenary or powertech. This tells me that the devs see powertech and mercenary as DIFFERENT classes. If they were the same class and just a different spec, wouldn't the class be bounty hunter?
Just out of curiousity (and mind you, I'm not lobbying for an AC swap because I don't really care one way or the other), what are your thoughts on the comments earlier in this thread pointing out:

1. Everquest 2 has AC swap.
2. WOW is selling "instant level 90s".
3. Rift allows soul swapping, which is similar to an AC swap.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.11.2014 , 09:06 PM | #4278
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
I provided a scenario above a few posts back.

You are arguing semantics on the the definition of advanced class vs class. I'm not going to get into a circular argument with you on this, it's been done many times in this thread.

Using WoW as an example really isn't going to help your point - they are currently selling Level 90 character boosts. So instead of "turning your Mage into a Rogue", you can buy a freshly minted 90 Rogue and keep your 90 Mage as well.

As for pay to win, when this feature is implemented I imagine it would be available by Cartel Coins and Credits, so it would not be pay to win.
The level 90 boosts in WoW are $60 and while that is max level now, it will not be once the expansion hits later this year. Would you be willing to pay $60 to change your class?

I've not seen anyone in this thread willing to pay $60 to change their class. It seems that most people want it to be at most $20 and many would prefer it to be far less than that.

Lugosi's Avatar


Lugosi
03.11.2014 , 09:13 PM | #4279
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Just out of curiousity (and mind you, I'm not lobbying for an AC swap because I don't really care one way or the other), what are your thoughts on the comments earlier in this thread pointing out:

1. Everquest 2 has AC swap.
2. WOW is selling "instant level 90s".
3. Rift allows soul swapping, which is similar to an AC swap.
I would be 100% behind something similar to Rift, that was brilliant. Souls are more like class trees though.

I could probably get behind something like being able to choose 3 trees out of the 6. It might completely botch the game up for a while (especially PvP), but it would certainly add more variety, and accomplish the same outcome.
Bargain not with the darkness, in time it will take us all.
Arms of the Abyss
Ilith - Akhroma - Molybdenum

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.11.2014 , 09:15 PM | #4280
Quote: Originally Posted by Seldan View Post
Neither of us have any real data ( aside from our own experiences ) that would say there is a demand or a dislike for the feature. Bioware has the metrics ( abandoned characters, deleted ACs, tickets requesting to change AC, tickets suggesting the feature, etc ).

Having said that, I feel the developers silence on the issue speaks loudly that they are at least entertaining the idea. Eric could post in this 400+ page thread and state they have no intent to offer an AC change feature. That's fine, so be it, end of story.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I do not believe the FOTM crowd is as rampant as some claim. SWTOR has a casual player base. Look at the number of NiM progression guilds and Ranked PvPers vs the entire population.

Based on my experiences in this and other MMOs, most casual players choose a class based on theme, aesthetics, and combat mechanics. Allowing an AC change can rekindle interest in an abandoned character, provide revenue for the game, and retain a player that would otherwise leave. Someone may dust off that level 50 Jugg they never intended to touch again, change them to a Mara, level them to 55 and find a new interest in playing that character again. That's healthy for the game!

Are there going to be some regstars that want to change AC for some perceived advantage in 8v8s? Of course. Why deny a feature for the entire player base due to this?
I see the devs' silence on this matter as an indication that they are NOT considering allowing class changes now.

Eric could just as easily post in this thread and let us know it is still on "the wall of crazy" or even something that they are still considering or would like to do.

Right now they have those who want to change their class paying and playing based in part on the hope that they will one day allow class changes. They also have those who are against class changes paying and playing while they do not allow class changes. If they came out and issued a more definitive statement, they risk alienating one faction or the other.

If BW issued a statement that they would not be implementing class changes anytime in the near future, those who wish to change their class would likely stop paying and/or playing if they had to actually <gasp> put some effort into actually leveling that new class instead of having it handed to them. Those against class changes would just as likely stop paying and/or playing if BW issued a statement that they would be implementing class changes.