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winkingskeever's Avatar


winkingskeever
03.09.2014 , 01:56 AM | #1851
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
I was looking at your logs on Torparse and I noticed something weird about your Watchman logs, and I thought they were impressive and wanted to see how you do things. Then I realized they are impossible to pull off. You can't have 125 OS hits in just over 4 minute parse, since it has a 12 second CD and has 5 hits per use (nor were you using Force attacks to prolong the dot at 1 or 2 stacks. So you would need a 5 minute to get that and have on the dot use of OS through the entire parse.

So either you know something I don't, or it is edited. Now, you never linked it here nor passed them off as legitimate, so I don't think that means you are a cheater and should be banned like Alor. Just curious why you edit logs and maybe see what people think about people editing logs, but not passing them off as legitimate.
I do not edit my logs.

So if you apply two stacks of overload on the dummy, and then refresh overload on yourself and then apply the final stack (so two stacks on yourself, three stacks on the dummy), the next melee attack, instead of refreshing the duration of the burn, does nothing. So now when those three stacks fall off, you can immediately apply two again. By that time overload is off cooldown and you can apply the third stack, keep two on yourself, and repeat the cycle. This gives an extra tick at 2 stacks, so 6 ticks per OS, which is why I have 125 ticks.

Prior to 2.0 doing this would just refresh the 3 stacks you already had. I noticed this during my testing on the 2.0 PTS but never payed it much attention since I never ran Watchman until recently (fed up with combat's proc shenanigans).

You can replicate this effect on the dummy by speccing combat for 30 centering, respeccing watchman, switching to Shii-Cho and using zen for the 12 focus to use for overload. Once you change back to Juyo any extra focus is gone and you are left with 3 stacks of overload and no focus. The extra catch here is to wait for the cooldown of OS to drop under 3 seconds, by which you have 4.5 seconds to engage the boss/dummy.

My Watchman parses are not here because this is an inconvenience to set up in a real raid setting, although it is doable during any period of downtime of around 8 seconds.

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
03.09.2014 , 04:36 AM | #1852
Quote: Originally Posted by winkingskeever View Post
I do not edit my logs.

So if you apply two stacks of overload on the dummy, and then refresh overload on yourself and then apply the final stack (so two stacks on yourself, three stacks on the dummy), the next melee attack, instead of refreshing the duration of the burn, does nothing. So now when those three stacks fall off, you can immediately apply two again. By that time overload is off cooldown and you can apply the third stack, keep two on yourself, and repeat the cycle. This gives an extra tick at 2 stacks, so 6 ticks per OS, which is why I have 125 ticks.

Prior to 2.0 doing this would just refresh the 3 stacks you already had. I noticed this during my testing on the 2.0 PTS but never payed it much attention since I never ran Watchman until recently (fed up with combat's proc shenanigans).

You can replicate this effect on the dummy by speccing combat for 30 centering, respeccing watchman, switching to Shii-Cho and using zen for the 12 focus to use for overload. Once you change back to Juyo any extra focus is gone and you are left with 3 stacks of overload and no focus. The extra catch here is to wait for the cooldown of OS to drop under 3 seconds, by which you have 4.5 seconds to engage the boss/dummy.

My Watchman parses are not here because this is an inconvenience to set up in a real raid setting, although it is doable during any period of downtime of around 8 seconds.
Quite a discovery, kudos for figuring that out! Incredible the ways to exploit Contemplation talent. If it just didn't mean that sh**load of work everytime ;-)

Your Dotsmash parse it pretty impressive, too, very well done!
It's funny how many ways there are to play that specc and your approach is quite different: Master Strike right after Sweep and not aiming for full useage of Heightened Power window. I assume that's why you specc 11/3/32 instead of the common 11/2/33?
I can't quite figure out why, but your rotation all in all seems superior. Care to share some insights?

*off for more practice* :-)
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Dacs (Commando) | Vayus (Guardian) | Craeg (Scoundrel)
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Emperor-Norton's Avatar


Emperor-Norton
03.09.2014 , 11:00 AM | #1853
Quote: Originally Posted by winkingskeever View Post
I do not edit my logs.

So if you apply two stacks of overload on the dummy, and then refresh overload on yourself and then apply the final stack (so two stacks on yourself, three stacks on the dummy), the next melee attack, instead of refreshing the duration of the burn, does nothing. So now when those three stacks fall off, you can immediately apply two again. By that time overload is off cooldown and you can apply the third stack, keep two on yourself, and repeat the cycle. This gives an extra tick at 2 stacks, so 6 ticks per OS, which is why I have 125 ticks.

Prior to 2.0 doing this would just refresh the 3 stacks you already had. I noticed this during my testing on the 2.0 PTS but never payed it much attention since I never ran Watchman until recently (fed up with combat's proc shenanigans).

You can replicate this effect on the dummy by speccing combat for 30 centering, respeccing watchman, switching to Shii-Cho and using zen for the 12 focus to use for overload. Once you change back to Juyo any extra focus is gone and you are left with 3 stacks of overload and no focus. The extra catch here is to wait for the cooldown of OS to drop under 3 seconds, by which you have 4.5 seconds to engage the boss/dummy.

My Watchman parses are not here because this is an inconvenience to set up in a real raid setting, although it is doable during any period of downtime of around 8 seconds.
That's very interesting. Thanks.

Edit: just fully tested this and it works. Forgive my ignorance.
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.09.2014 , 11:20 AM | #1854
Took a look at the top Marauder parse to get a few pointers for dotsmash...
http://www.torparse.com/a/589425/tim...822/0/Overview

Why is he prestacking, and why did no one catch it?
Quote: Originally Posted by Falver View Post
9. Prestacking buffs using in-combat related moves is not allowed. However, buffs that can be replicated in an operations setting is permitted. For example, scoundrels respeccing from scrapper to dirty fighting to preload flachette round is permitted.
Not trying to be a downer here or rain on anyone's parade, honestly was just looking for some tips. However, saw a short fight prior to the main one and (I assume he used it to pre-stack stuff, I doubt it was just some random fight) wondered if it was allowed. Checked and it wasn't. Figured it was better said than not.

On the other hand, is he actually using it to stack Rage? I didn't look at all the abilities and see if he had any Rage left over. It's entirely possible he simply didn't care enough to use Brooding (carnage tree's fury building from Channel Hatred) and instead pre-stacked fury (which is allowed, by the rules) by using Rage-spending abilities. Not sure, didn't look at it, just noticed a prior fight. Can someone check this out?
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL +55s: 20
ETERNAL WARRIOR CHEEVO POINTS: +27,000

Quickglue's Avatar


Quickglue
03.09.2014 , 11:25 AM | #1855
Sorry seems to be the hardest word...

Anyway quite a discovery, very nice.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
03.09.2014 , 12:00 PM | #1856
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Not trying to be a downer here or rain on anyone's parade, honestly was just looking for some tips. However, saw a short fight prior to the main one and (I assume he used it to pre-stack stuff, I doubt it was just some random fight) wondered if it was allowed. Checked and it wasn't. Figured it was better said than not.

On the other hand, is he actually using it to stack Rage? I didn't look at all the abilities and see if he had any Rage left over. It's entirely possible he simply didn't care enough to use Brooding (carnage tree's fury building from Channel Hatred) and instead pre-stacked fury (which is allowed, by the rules) by using Rage-spending abilities. Not sure, didn't look at it, just noticed a prior fight. Can someone check this out?
Falver has previously stated that pre-stacking Centering/Fury by simply hitting the dummy is legal, but you must open combat with zero focus/rage (unless you're in Shii-cho) and also no other in-combat procs (i.e. no Annihilate stacks; no Execute proc; no Shockwave). The reasoning is because Brooding is accessible via respecing, and thus replicable on a boss (out of combat), but it's a pain in the neck when you're dummy parsing.
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.09.2014 , 12:22 PM | #1857
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Falver has previously stated that pre-stacking Centering/Fury by simply hitting the dummy is legal, but you must open combat with zero focus/rage (unless you're in Shii-cho) and also no other in-combat procs (i.e. no Annihilate stacks; no Execute proc; no Shockwave). The reasoning is because Brooding is accessible via respecing, and thus replicable on a boss (out of combat), but it's a pain in the neck when you're dummy parsing.
So in other words, he chose to pre-stack fury manually instead of by Brooding, but has the same net gain? Sounds about right. Had nothing better to do so I gave it a quick check. Looks like his abilities work this way, as far as Rage goes:
Quote: Originally Posted by Some random combat log... why are you reading this text anyways?
3 +6 -2 -2 -2 -2 +2 -2 +2 -2 +2 +6 -2 -2
That gives him a net return of 3 Rage. The time between his first fight and second fight is over 30 seconds, more than enough time for that to drain away. On the other hand, he uses 8 Vicious Slashes, just enough to give him 30 Fury.

So yeah, in conclusion: Never mind. Seems like he's just using an alternate way to pre-stack Fury, just seemed a bit odd to me seeing a small fight before the big one.

Time to analyze for dotsmash tips ;D
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL +55s: 20
ETERNAL WARRIOR CHEEVO POINTS: +27,000

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.09.2014 , 12:30 PM | #1858
Ran a few parses, got a pretty decent number but Torparse registers it as being lower than what the Parsec ingame parser had showed it as... I trimmed the fight to the start and end times (on the Torparse site) but it didn't seem to change much. Am I missing something, or did I just get unlucky?
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL +55s: 20
ETERNAL WARRIOR CHEEVO POINTS: +27,000

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.09.2014 , 12:46 PM | #1859
OK so I have a parse here that I just did... it's decent enough but it doesn't make this leaderboard quite yet. However, rather than posting the question on my server's forums I figure the people here are more likely to have an answer for me, especially when it comes to rules and... whatever weird exception category this falls under...

I have here a 3771 parse but it's... not normal... The dummy was at somewhere around 13k HP so I figured the final Ravage wouldn't kill it, so I threw in a Battering Assault afterwards. However, the Ravage did kill it, and it instantly respawned, making my Battering Assault hit the new target. However, these attacks were very close together and, as it turns out, both occurred at 11:40:03. That means that when I choose the start time and end time of the first fight in the dropdown boxes, I'm pretty sure it's also taking that Battering Assault into account, which was not in fact part of the first fight.

What are my options here? Should I simply click the first fight and use that DPS? Should I click the Start Time and End Time in the dropdown and take the extra DPS? Should I manually edit the second fight out of the log?

Edit: Took a closer look at it, it actually appears that the Ravage hit itself was what boosted the DPS so much, by only using the EnterCombat and ExitCombat given by the little blue link on the left-hand column, it ignores that last hit. Judging by the Log section of the parse, it looks like it takes into account the activation of the Battering Assault but not the damage itself... how should this be handled?
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL +55s: 20
ETERNAL WARRIOR CHEEVO POINTS: +27,000

winkingskeever's Avatar


winkingskeever
03.09.2014 , 02:44 PM | #1860
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
OK so I have a parse here that I just did... it's decent enough but it doesn't make this leaderboard quite yet. However, rather than posting the question on my server's forums I figure the people here are more likely to have an answer for me, especially when it comes to rules and... whatever weird exception category this falls under...

I have here a 3771 parse but it's... not normal... The dummy was at somewhere around 13k HP so I figured the final Ravage wouldn't kill it, so I threw in a Battering Assault afterwards. However, the Ravage did kill it, and it instantly respawned, making my Battering Assault hit the new target. However, these attacks were very close together and, as it turns out, both occurred at 11:40:03. That means that when I choose the start time and end time of the first fight in the dropdown boxes, I'm pretty sure it's also taking that Battering Assault into account, which was not in fact part of the first fight.

What are my options here? Should I simply click the first fight and use that DPS? Should I click the Start Time and End Time in the dropdown and take the extra DPS? Should I manually edit the second fight out of the log?

Edit: Took a closer look at it, it actually appears that the Ravage hit itself was what boosted the DPS so much, by only using the EnterCombat and ExitCombat given by the little blue link on the left-hand column, it ignores that last hit. Judging by the Log section of the parse, it looks like it takes into account the activation of the Battering Assault but not the damage itself... how should this be handled?
I think you would calculate the TTK from:
11:40:03.061 Idnewton kills Operations Training Dummy.
11:35:38.491 Idnewton enters combat.