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Bombers have ruined everthing that was GSF!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Bombers have ruined everthing that was GSF!!

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.24.2014 , 05:23 PM | #91
Yeah, skilled pilots make class superiority less relevant.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

QuinMantha's Avatar


QuinMantha
02.24.2014 , 05:28 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Yeah, skilled pilots make class superiority less relevant.
Bingo.

Which is why even I have to look at folks wailing about this ship OP or that ship OP or nerf Gunnys/Scouts/Bombers/AuntSassy and shake my head. The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.

If they can do it to my Gunship, they can do it to a Bomber. All it takes is a little bit of time, and learning where to squeeze.
Ebon Hawkin' And Totally Rockin'

- Cmdr. Rhint Mantha, Jedi Knight, <Blue Squadron>
- Mjr. Galbaldy Mantha, Trooper
- Tsun'pahn, Bounty Hunter and Smuggler

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.24.2014 , 05:37 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinMantha View Post
The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.
You've seen me fly. You know I'm not shooting my mouth off here. If you've forgotten, I have screenshots and you can always grab me for a few games.

Overpowered does not mean unbeatable. There is really only one case I can think of across any game I've ever played where it did, and that's Mewtwo in Red/Blue. In any other example -- beastcleave in WoW, spiritway in Guild Wars, bombers and gunships in GSF, you name it -- overpowered has meant simply that: overpowered. Not "guaranteed win", not "unkillable", just "more powerful than it should be".

And even given that, my biggest gripe with bombers and gunships isn't that they're overpowered (even though they are); my biggest gripe is that they're unfun. It's no fun to be smacked by ion and realize there's nothing you can do but wait. It's no fun to get blown up by seeker mines because you can't prevent their damage once they lock on to you. It's no fun to get railgunned to death in the middle of a barrel roll because railgun drones have absolutely perfect AI and seemingly ignore evasion. It's no fun to watch two guys blow up because they were on the tail of a bomber when he rolled his face across the conc mine button. It's no fun to get shot out of the air by some guy with a slug that you didn't even know existed. It's no fun to die to a plasma dot after killing the only guy within fifty kilometers.

In short, the fact that you can die doesn't mean the game is appropriately balanced.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

QuinMantha's Avatar


QuinMantha
02.24.2014 , 05:40 PM | #94
Well, time out, hasn't the whole not being able to outrun Seeker Mines bit been corrected by 2.6a?
Ebon Hawkin' And Totally Rockin'

- Cmdr. Rhint Mantha, Jedi Knight, <Blue Squadron>
- Mjr. Galbaldy Mantha, Trooper
- Tsun'pahn, Bounty Hunter and Smuggler

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.24.2014 , 05:47 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinMantha View Post
Well, time out, hasn't the whole not being able to outrun Seeker Mines bit been corrected by 2.6a?
I was pretty sure that was still "in the works" (missile sentry drones too). I could be crazy, though.

Still, there's a bunch of legitimate complaints about bombers being not fun. You can replace that specific one with "I didn't sign up for PvP so I could fight the AI", if you like.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Sindariel's Avatar


Sindariel
02.24.2014 , 06:19 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
And even given that, my biggest gripe with bombers and gunships isn't that they're overpowered (even though they are); my biggest gripe is that they're unfun. It's no fun to be smacked by ion and realize there's nothing you can do but wait. It's no fun to get blown up by seeker mines because you can't prevent their damage once they lock on to you. It's no fun to get railgunned to death in the middle of a barrel roll because railgun drones have absolutely perfect AI and seemingly ignore evasion. It's no fun to watch two guys blow up because they were on the tail of a bomber when he rolled his face across the conc mine button. It's no fun to get shot out of the air by some guy with a slug that you didn't even know existed. It's no fun to die to a plasma dot after killing the only guy within fifty kilometers.
This sums it up perfectly.

Just imagine if they were to implement a seperate dogfight only gamemode with just scouts and strike fighters and without bombers and gunships. How long do you think it would take until players would completely abandon the normal gamemode? Weeks? Days? Hours?

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.24.2014 , 07:14 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Sindariel View Post
This sums it up perfectly.

Just imagine if they were to implement a seperate dogfight only gamemode with just scouts and strike fighters and without bombers and gunships. How long do you think it would take until players would completely abandon the normal gamemode? Weeks? Days? Hours?
Well, that wouldn't be perfect either.

I really, really, really dislike the current incarnation of gunships and bombers, but they add a desperately needed variety to combat. Tactics for fighting scouts and strikes are generally fairly similar: you dogfight them. Specifics change, and different builds require different tactics to counter, but that's the general idea. One thing gunships bring to the table that I've liked and encouraged since early alpha is that they greatly expand the space in which a battle takes place, which reduces predictability and increases fun.

I would have absolutely loved gunships if they were a ranged support class, instead of a ranged offensive class. If gunships had a thing that shot healing drones at an ally, with a range of 15 km, requiring you to lock on to your ally? That would be absolutely boss. That would encourage people to fight in places other than on the point, or in the middle of the killball, without the unfun mechanics railguns bring to the table. With some work, that class could also be fun to play (no offense to the gunship and bomber aces out there, but damn that **** is boring to me).

It's not a perfect idea, but it's a concept I feel would be much better for the game than the current gunship and bomber concepts.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Lugaidh's Avatar


Lugaidh
02.24.2014 , 07:50 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinMantha View Post
Bingo.

Which is why even I have to look at folks wailing about this ship OP or that ship OP or nerf Gunnys/Scouts/Bombers/AuntSassy and shake my head. The really good pilots, at least on Ebon Hawk, are so talented at what they do, it doesn't matter how OP my Ion Rail is...they still manage to slip out from under my sights and even come back around and nail me.

If my ship was really that OP, be it Scout, Strike, Gunny or Bomber, I shouldn't be getting killed in it. People hate my Gunship, but the really good pilots know just what to do to make me uncomfortable.

If they can do it to my Gunship, they can do it to a Bomber. All it takes is a little bit of time, and learning where to squeeze.
Is that you Rhint??

<----Baelyn-tiel

Anyway, my issue isn't that they're op. It's cuz they've turned gsf into a hide-and-seek or even a smash a grab game.

You chase someone, do some damage and then fly back to the mass of drones and/or mines that the bomber has laid. Now it's a prod-fest. We goad each other until we get the enemy in or out of the drone/mine field (depending on which team you're on.

I still top the leader boards but that's not why I play. I play for the hair-raising, ride by the seat of your pants action. It's devolved into a hit and fade sneakfest which is my problem with the bombers.
-Lugaidh Shati

Pilgrim_Grey's Avatar


Pilgrim_Grey
02.24.2014 , 08:31 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
In short, the fact that you can die doesn't mean the game is appropriately balanced.
Yup. I've got nothing against the idea of bombers or even many of the aspects of ion cannon. The problem is that they're just not balanced right now for what they can do. Scouts and Distortion Field are looking much more balanced at the moment, so hopefully they can do the same soon for the others.

MarkosWarstorm's Avatar


MarkosWarstorm
02.24.2014 , 08:43 PM | #100
Bombers are more useful in dominations matches than deathmatch. In domination matches, if I'm flying against middling to lower-tier pilots, I use my bomber. I do this because (a) I can drop mines/drones near objectives knowing that the enemy will come near, and (b) knowing that I can do far more mass damage against them since they don't actively wipe me or my drones out. In deathmatch, it can be somewhat effective if you can keep folks fighting in a reasonably small area, which is best done in a group. Since I'm mostly a solo queuer, it's not easy for me to dictate the battle location.

Now, in either mode, against good pilots, they know 3 things. Drones/mines blow up easy. Also, when I die, all my mines/drones go too. Further, I'm slow and have next to no escapability if I'm being ganged. So basically if they focus me down, I'm gone as are all my toys, and it'll take a long time until I'm back in the fight, compared to other ships. When that happens, I'm a far more useful member to my team (particularly solo) in my pike or flashfire.

TL;DR - Bombers are most useful in small areas. Bombers have weaknesses, good pilots (especially teamed) can exploit these and render a bomber almost totally useless. Against good pilots (and especially when solo queued), fly a strike or a scout.
Markôs Warstorm
Delta, Inc.