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Game Update 2.7 Sentinel Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Knight > Sentinel
Game Update 2.7 Sentinel Changes
 
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mcpark's Avatar


mcpark
02.16.2014 , 06:33 PM | #131
Welp this is a good thing in a way focus does suck its one true purpose was to put pressure on the healers. The truth is knight/warrior classes just hands down suck this nerf has really made me weigh the options and they both suck stay focus or use a spec that's only really good with a 4 man premade inside a rated WZ and teamspeak. At first ill say I was mad that focus was getting nerfed but its not that its that there is nothing else we can use that even comes close to what we got out of it.

KnightTyler's Avatar


KnightTyler
02.16.2014 , 06:49 PM | #132
The nerf to Force Sweep is far too much overkill in my opinion. It should not require a Primary Target to activate. A simple alternative would be to make Zealous Leap and/or Force Leap apply a debuff that enables Felling Blow and Singularity effects to apply to the Primary Target leaped at.

I also don't think its a good idea to make Swelling Winds not affect secondary targets. All that really was needed to tone the spec down in PvP was to remove the autocrit buff from Felling Blow on Secondary Player Targets. Singularity and Swelling Winds don't really make things all that bad, its the AutoCrit that makes everyone go "oh man I shouldn't have been clustered next to all my teammates! Smashers and Sweepers are so OP because of my choice in positioning lol"

I think the idea, which I may be wrong, is that they are trying to make all specs have unique single target gameplay while giving each spec access to formidable AoE capabilities in ALL trees. So instead of there being a "Single Target" tree, a "AoE" tree and a "PvP" tree to choose from, they are trying to make all trees have their own unique form of Single Target damage while providing AoE and PvP capabilities. I'm guessing they could be balancing around Burst and Sustained damage profiles for the trees instead of just single target tree, AoE tree, etc... If they are trying to do this then I can understand why they have been toning AoE's down lately.

Some clarification on this issue would be nice if the team wouldn't mind letting us know what their plans are. It would be even greater if they would provide us with a blog post or something telling us how they envision each class and their respective specs and trees to "feel" like and what long-term goals are for how each spec performs.

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
02.16.2014 , 06:50 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by mcpark View Post
Welp this is a good thing in a way focus does suck its one true purpose was to put pressure on the healers. The truth is knight/warrior classes just hands down suck this nerf has really made me weigh the options and they both suck stay focus or use a spec that's only really good with a 4 man premade inside a rated WZ and teamspeak. At first ill say I was mad that focus was getting nerfed but its not that its that there is nothing else we can use that even comes close to what we got out of it.
Combat is fine without a premade/coms.

All sentinel specs (watchman used to be good for solo queue before heal nerf) at the end of the day as meelee aren't too great without a healer on your team because its a meelee and you take the most dmg since you have to be up in the other teams face to do dmg... I mean even as a smasher if you had no heals you'd get focused and killed pretty quickly anyway you might get a couple of smashes up with your cds but thats it..

While i main sentinel i a kinda prefer my sorc/merc for solo pug reg wzs because of this since if you are positioned well you won't take as much dmg without a decent healer on your team and you can offheal yourself a little.. Call me crazy..

Combat when played well while it won't put aoe pressure on a team you can really pressure a healer and completely shut him down and probably kill all but the best healers when they don't have a guard.
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Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
02.16.2014 , 07:08 PM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
This is a good point. No one is saying RNG on its own is the greatest thing ever, it is that having to adapt to it creates a far more dynamic and challenging situation than anything Bioware has shown to be capable of designing. Although I am more in favor of making a spec that is challenging even in theory, and then has to worry about DPSing on the boss.
I agree that *some* RNG can make a spec more dynamic and keep the rotation/priority system more interesting; however, I don't think it should influence the backbone of the rotation.

Take Watchman for instance - I think this is RNG in a spec done "right". Regardless of RNG, the basic rotation remains:

Merciless Slash - GCD2 - GCD3 - GCD4 - Merciless Slash - GCD2 - GCD3 - GCD4

If you get a Mind Seer proc, Cauterize generally goes in GCD2; if not, you have to use an extra filler, but the basic pattern remains the same. Getting lucky w/ this proc is definitely a nice boost to your dps, but getting unlucky doesn't completely screw you over. The other RNG in the spec, proccing Focus from burns and critical hits, generally balances out over the course of a fight simply because of how many RNG rolls you get.

The RNG in Gunnery Commandos, and pre-2.6 Vigilance Guardians, however, is "bad" RNG. Here, getting unlucky completely screws with your rotation, and in both specs also leads to severe resource management issues, since their key abilities (Full Auto and Master Strike, respectively) are easier on their resources than their filler abilities. So when they get unlucky, they're hit with a double whammy - not only are they missing out on their hardest hitting abilities, their dps suffers even more because they have to use more basic attacks to avoid running out of resources.


Now, the biggest complaint I've seen about the post-2.6 Vigilance rotation is that it's too static, and I can see where people are coming from. While it might be nice if there was a *little* RNG left in the spec to make it more dynamic, I think having *no* RNG is preferable to the *bad* RNG that plagued the spec before.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.17.2014 , 12:28 AM | #135
What they've essentially done is formalized cumulative procs, and since my first class was Gunnery Commando I'm all for it.

Honestly I would prefer actual cumulative procs like Assault commando currently has. There's enough RNG to keep things interesting, but you don't find yourself hurting horribly for ammo trying to fish for a proc.

Basically if your spec absolutely depends on a proc, and that proc has a decent chance of not showing up in big long streaks, then that is a broken spec, since no amount of skill can make a proc actually occur.

Once procs go from being "absolutely necessary if you don't want to suck" to "a nice boost to DPS which keeps things interesting, and making best use of it is rewarding" then I'm all for RNG.
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Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.17.2014 , 10:57 PM | #136
All these RNG discussions are doubtless edifying, but please lets return to the catastrophe at hand....

Let's review why the proposal is a sux @## idea...

1) It wont just nerf the spec for pvp, it will kill it. No one can HONESTLY say the tree will be worth a damn anymore in pvp. The ENTIRE tree is built around one aoe skill, and you are crippling its aoe power.

2) While the spec was high damage, it wasn't any higher damage than what many other specs from many other classes put up....like say sorcerers, which are getting A NUMBER of improvements...really, did you need to make their bubble any better??? Adding 5 seconds more of buffs and no interrupts after the bubble? Bottom line, specs that were ALREADY doing the same or better damage than focus are getting UPPED, INCREASED. This makes no sense.

3) If you were smart enough to figure out that it would kill the spec in pve, how can you not see it will kill it in PvP. This will kill smash, dotsmash....watchmen is mediocre as long as the dots are so frail and cleansable. That LEAVES ONE SPEC FOR SENTINELS....combat, which is ok, but has one application, single target spiky damage...what happened to the DIVERSITY in DPS for a DPS only class we were promised and supposed to have. Now, years into the game, we are WORSE OFF THAN EVER. No choice. Pathetic. Beefing up watchman would be a good idea, too.

4) Even if you ignore what other classes are doing dps wise, and the buffs many are receiving, you HAVE to look at what you are doing to the talents in the focus tree...you are making 3-4 boxes next to worthless, which translates into about 8 skill points down the toilet, with NOTHING to replace them. You are just over whacking with the nerf bat with no consideration of fairness, balance or the shape you are going to leave the class in afterwards.

5) There are better, easier solutions that anyone can come up with in about 2 seconds...perhaps the easiest is to simply reduce the number of aoe targets for pvp wz's, from 5 down to 4 or 3. Since the reduction is triggered in the WZ, no targeting requirement is necessary...so that should stay untouched. This will lessen the overall damage output. The 10k smash is an extreme rarity, anyway. There are damn near countless counters in the game to melee focus. Damage mitigators, stuns, knockbacks, you name it. Players smart enough simply not to cluster like a bunch of lemmings.

tl;dr This set of nerfs is so ill-conceived and so heavy handed as to be completely unworkable and laughable. You might as well just remove the whole damn tree.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

XnibiruX's Avatar


XnibiruX
02.18.2014 , 01:54 AM | #137
So this is basically a nerf for all the bad players that QQ'ed? If people didn't stack on top of each other so much, or took their 30% aoe damage reduction, there probably wouldn't be so many whiners. My concern with this nerf is that combat and focus are equal in total damage, atm. So basically Sents will only have one spec to pvp with from now on. I find it funny they make all these nerfs based off the babies that don't know how to play. It's like the shadow healing nerf, people need to learn what their interrupt spells are and use them. I have a sent, shadow, gunslinger, commando and lvling a sage. I have no problem beating a sent on my other chars, no problem beating a shadow on my other chars, etc. Instead of all the nerfing they should make a pvp class for noobs. Bads don't realize that you need to know the other class as well as your own. When to stun, interrupt, use certain abilities, etc. And the gunslinger change? why, we have way more than enough survivability.

XnibiruX's Avatar


XnibiruX
02.18.2014 , 02:12 AM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyvim View Post
2) While the spec was high damage, it wasn't any higher damage than what many other specs from many other classes put up....like say sorcerers, which are getting A NUMBER of improvements...really, did you need to make their bubble any better??? Adding 5 seconds more of buffs and no interrupts after the bubble? Bottom line, specs that were ALREADY doing the same or better damage than focus are getting UPPED, INCREASED. This makes no sense.
This is the funny thing. All these bad players that cry on the forums, in game, etc. the spec only put up equal numbers to the other top classes, if you know how to play correctly. People crying cuz they see big crits is ignorant, they don't realize its on a timer and takes time to even set up the crit. And it can be avoided, the aoe radius is small. I have an idea, lets all stack on that sent over there using focus spec. My biggest thing is if they are gonna remove the huge aoe part that hits mostly bad players, what are they gonna buff in the spec to bring it back up to equal with combat spec.

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.18.2014 , 02:36 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by XnibiruX View Post
This is the funny thing. .... My biggest thing is if they are gonna remove the huge aoe part that hits mostly bad players, what are they gonna buff in the spec to bring it back up to equal with combat spec.
Apparently, NOTHING. That's the joke, get it? It is a REAL rib tickler...
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

redcatt's Avatar


redcatt
02.20.2014 , 10:58 PM | #140
I don't play warrior or knight but I think that this nerf is COMPLETE overkill. I think they should've kept the 100% crit chance for AoE but still gotten rid of the singularity (100% more damage) that way you still do a little bit more AoE but you dont crit 5 people for 8k. Just my 2 cents!
Lvl 50 OPerative concealment.
Bioware kindly restrain the crack head making these decisions, and return the monkey. The monkey's decisions were more random, but at least they weren't as bad. In other words I do not support this.