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CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
02.18.2014 , 11:35 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
Could you please quantify the highlighted statement?

In my personal experience, the game's economy is just fine (that is, there is no rampant inflation and thousands or more player-to-player transactions seem to occur each day) and the crafting system, though not as awesome as SWG's was, is working just fine (that is, I and numerous others who can figure out how to roll with changes do very well).

Regarding EA "milking" the CM, that's an incorrect and inflammatory assessment. Within months of launch, EA was put to a tough decision. They could let the game die. Or they could implement a microtransaction model. Or they could try like hell to make the game worth $15 a month to the about 2 million players who tried it but didn't stay.

Given the history - they had already spent numerous years and hundreds of millions of dollars making the game and it still wasn't worth $15 a month to so many people - the third option was out of contention quickly. Now you're left with shut it down or convert to micro-transactions. They're a business. They thought they could run profitably if they implemented a micro-transaction model. So they did it.

Businesses must generate revenue or die. So all that "milking" you're talking about is actually EA just doing what it's supposed to do - delivering something consumers want to purchase so it can generate profitable revenue for its shareholders. Quit complaining about a business doing business. This sh... stuff isn't free.
....
The game's economy is pretty healthy. That is ONLY the case because in game currency is tied directly to real currency. Every item in the game has a real world dollar value attached to it that controls the inflation/deflation that normally messes up virtual economies. This is so because the Publisher is now the Gold Seller, they do it one step removed, but they are still Gold Sellers.

The game bombed, but it was in no danger of being shut down. This is alarmist revisionist history used to excuse the cash grabbing. The money to develop it had already been spent, there was no plausible scenario of it being shut down as long as there were enough butts in the seats to pay the upkeep costs. The upkeep costs of an MMO in maintenance mode are negligible. The only plausible cases of imminent shutdown were A) for a tax write-off or B) to mitigate brand damage from having (another) failed Star Wars MMO.
"I still think nothing that has been suggested in the last

10 minutes beats 'smashy smashy egg men'."

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
02.18.2014 , 12:11 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
The game's economy is pretty healthy. That is ONLY the case because in game currency is tied directly to real currency. Every item in the game has a real world dollar value attached to it that controls the inflation/deflation that normally messes up virtual economies. This is so because the Publisher is now the Gold Seller, they do it one step removed, but they are still Gold Sellers.

The game bombed, but it was in no danger of being shut down. This is alarmist revisionist history used to excuse the cash grabbing. The money to develop it had already been spent, there was no plausible scenario of it being shut down as long as there were enough butts in the seats to pay the upkeep costs. The upkeep costs of an MMO in maintenance mode are negligible. The only plausible cases of imminent shutdown were A) for a tax write-off or B) to mitigate brand damage from having (another) failed Star Wars MMO.
The game's currency is in no way tied to real currency. Game currency is created through player actions in game, namely killing things, looting them, and selling the stuff they loot.

While there might be minuscule amounts of credit at random from cartel packs, you absolutely cannot purchase credits for cartel coins.

Minack's Avatar


Minack
02.18.2014 , 12:15 PM | #83
The Cartel Market is a cash crop. Don't expect them to change it all that much when there are still people willing to be harvest..er..willing to pay for things that should have been included in the game from the start.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
02.18.2014 , 12:19 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
The game's currency is in no way tied to real currency. Game currency is created through player actions in game, namely killing things, looting them, and selling the stuff they loot.

While there might be minuscule amounts of credit at random from cartel packs, you absolutely cannot purchase credits for cartel coins.
Yeah, while there are MMO companies that actually sell in game currency to players, SWTOR is NOT one of them. All credits (baring the random credit booms, which nobody get's wealthy from), come from in game activities and rewards. CM content being traded for credits on the GTN or via direct player to player selling is a zero-sum game in terms of in game credits. All that happens is credits move from one player to another with 6% withdrawn as a selling fee if it's via GTN.

And while it is technically possible to portray a conversion rate of sorts with respect to CCs and in game credits.. that is driven more then anything by in game player demand for CM items, not any sort of true peg exchange rate.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
02.18.2014 , 12:29 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
The game's currency is in no way tied to real currency. Game currency is created through player actions in game, namely killing things, looting them, and selling the stuff they loot.

While there might be minuscule amounts of credit at random from cartel packs, you absolutely cannot purchase credits for cartel coins.
You can't seriously believe this.

You can purchase items for CC's and sell those items for credits. That is the "one step removed" from EA being the direct gold sellers.
"I still think nothing that has been suggested in the last

10 minutes beats 'smashy smashy egg men'."

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
02.18.2014 , 12:33 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
You can't seriously believe this.

You can purchase items for CC's and sell those items for credits. That is the "one step removed" from EA being the direct gold sellers.
Zero-sum result in total economy CCs though. Sure.. CM items encourage players to buy/sell to each other in game for in game credits.... but all that does is move the credits from point A to point B.

Whereas, direct currency selling does in fact inflate the player economy as it injects new currency into the player economy.

These are very different, with very different results on player economies.

If anything, the proliferation of CM items is mildly deflationary to the in game economy since it peels off 6% of every GTN sale. More CM items means more player to player trading, and that means more active GTN listings and sales.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
02.18.2014 , 12:37 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
You can't seriously believe this.

You can purchase items for CC's and sell those items for credits. That is the "one step removed" from EA being the direct gold sellers.
So credits are tied to US$ because I can use US$ to buy them?

Therefore, every currency, real world, ingame, anything, is tied to the US$ because I can use US$ to purchase them, too.

Rational.

Lithy's Avatar


Lithy
02.18.2014 , 12:46 PM | #88
I just want to point out that this game's cashshop system is FAR superior. It doesn't sell stats or endgame man and offhand components in the shop like LotRO, and this is coming from someone who played LotRO from launch through the Rohan xpac and has a lifetime sub to the game. I loved lotro but it's just gone down hill.

To your other complaints, they sound very valid and I'm sorry your having issues subbing and connecting that really does suck
Lithíum Hartshotte, Sniper
Exit Area

Tallianna Hartshotte, Gunslinger
Officer of Shadowed

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
02.18.2014 , 12:47 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
So credits are tied to US$ because I can use US$ to buy them?

Therefore, every currency, real world, ingame, anything, is tied to the US$ because I can use US$ to purchase them, too.

Rational.
In any game that has no cash shop, you cannot buy ingame currency, either directly or indirectly. Therefore they are not tied to any real world currency because their value is purely virtual. This is why items remain extremely pricey in TOR, unlike in any other non-Cash shop game where everything eventually devalues to the point of being worthless.

And yes, every real world currency and real world good is tied directly to the US$, because every good or currency can be exchanged for US$. This is news to you?
"I still think nothing that has been suggested in the last

10 minutes beats 'smashy smashy egg men'."

Phorenzyk's Avatar


Phorenzyk
02.18.2014 , 01:03 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post


They sold an expansion. They sell cosmetic things only in the Cartel Market. What on that do you think isn't cosmetic? What ingame mechanics have they ruined? Why should they give more to people who don't pay to play the game? Again, they are not a charity.

F2P is insulting to the publisher, period. If people don't think the game is worth spending money on, they shouldn't play it. The insult isn't from the publisher to the player. It's the players insulting the publisher by taking advantage of a free service, thus deriving value from it, and giving nothing in return.




You're going to have to point me to how the cash shop negatively impacted non cash shop areas of the game, like operations, flash points, new planets, etc.

Again, F2P players generate no revenue. They represent no value to the publisher. They should be thrilled to play such a great game for free, even with the restrictions placed upon them.




You said: (the Cartel Market) has a negative effect on the game economy and crafting system.

Could you please quantify that for us?
I can answer all of these with one word: Artifice. The cartel market has made an absolute joke of the market for selling leveling crystals. It's taken quite a lot away from Artifice.

Cybertech: Can sell armoring, mods, etc, along with end-game variations. These are something that are always in need, because as long as the game exists, there will be a need for people to search for better gear.

Biochem: There will, similarly, always be a need for players to get better implants and replace the various stims they use.

Armormech and Synthweaving have large selections of orange gear to sell, along with augment things. Not replaced as often, but still something with a continued, viable market.

Armstech: Same as cybertech, but with barrels and hilts.

Artifice: Well, they can make end-game color crystals - which if we're honest, aren't a big deal for stats anymore, only for color. The market on these is very low, because once you have a crystal, you don't have to replace it. You can take it out of your weapon, store it, ship it off to another character with legacy items, and it's not going to get "upgraded" stat-wise. They can make enhancements, true, and that's a good market, but...uh... There's some augments IIRC, and....well, that's really the only useful stuff they can make a profit on. Isn't much, compared to other crafting markets that will have much more need. Leveling crystals? Cartel crystals wiped that out. Offhands? Go run the very first flashpoint and get an orange offhand. Orange weapons? Well, there's...a very scant few. Leveling weapons? Nope. If you're leveling in any way other than GSF, getting the planetary comms to upgrade orange gear won't be a problem. If you're leveling in GSF, you didn't need to upgrade that gear anyway.

So, in summary: The cartel market completely shattered 1/2 (1/3rd if you -must- count end-game crystals) of Artifice's viable, renewable markets. No other crafting skill has been hit like that. The orange armor from other crafting skills isn't buyable through the cartel market - you'll need crafters to get that look. Augments, stims, etc - not purchasable through the cartel market. Armoring and mods are, for two levels: 15 and 30, but the CC cost is high enough that you'd have to have more money than sense to take advantage of that.