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Imperial Lore Week

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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.16.2014 , 07:16 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Mathemagica View Post
Would have? I'm pretty sure they heard about each other before Ilum, maybe even met each other on occasion. If they ever spoke, Marr probably called Malgus rash and Malgus accused Marr of being a coward.
Post-Ilum perhaps, but I'm not sure before that. I mean more in the sense that if Malgus had decided to reform the Empire from the inside as opposed to declaring a new one. Malgus is one of few Sith who shares Marr's ideals.

That said, what Marr has said about Malgus (if anything I can't recall) it hasn't been very revealing. I don't expect Marr was among the Sith denouncing Malgus for his beliefs and his actions, I expect he agreed with him to an extent.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
02.17.2014 , 03:10 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I agree. On top of that Marr doesn't seem to be particularly faithful at all to the Emperor in the Makeb arc:

The Emperor is gone, dying if not dead, no matter what our propagandists say. He will not be mourned.

...

Now is our chance to reforge in the flames of battle--to reshape the into a image of unity and strength.


Marr doesn't seem all too concerned that the Emperor is dead, perhaps even relieved. He sees it as a chance to take control and reassign the Empire's priorities, and do away with this mindless worship to an "apathetic Emperor."

Very Malgus-esque. They would have liked eachother.
Oh I fully agree that he is far from an Emperor-sycophant as it stands in the "present" of the game's storyline, but I also think he is still completely unaware of the Emperor's endgame.

That's why I raise the question:
Right now Marr is absolutely a Malgus-lite (the diet coke of Malgus, if you will). He is still a nasty piece of work, but he's only evil in the "it's ok to murder people by the millions if it achieves my goals" way; which in fiction, for some reason, isn't a barrier at all to being a sympathetic character. He opposes the Empire's xenophobia and in-fighting
so he's not the "bad" kind of evil, he's just the "cool" kind of evil; he's meant to be a popular character who Imperial players can look at as "our guy", the face of the Empire we can support.

That's why it would be interesting if his death-seeking nature actually puts him in the Emperor's camp when the time comes and Marr finally learns of it. Since it's obvious that both the Empire and Republic are going to have the Emperor as one of the major "Big Bad" threats down the line - possibly even being held back specifically to be the last major boss of the whole game's lifecycle, having "our guy" Marr side against the team we'd all assume he'd be leading would be an interesting twist.

I think Osetto might be onto something with the quote he had about Marr wanting to leave a strong Empire as his Legacy, that's a very convincing reason for why Marr would still oppose the Emperor after learning the truth. But if he came to believe that creating a God-Emperor would be the ultimate legacy for the Empire itself, I think he might still side against the Galaxy.
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.17.2014 , 06:46 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
Oh I fully agree that he is far from an Emperor-sycophant as it stands in the "present" of the game's storyline, but I also think he is still completely unaware of the Emperor's endgame.

That's why I raise the question:
Right now Marr is absolutely a Malgus-lite (the diet coke of Malgus, if you will). He is still a nasty piece of work, but he's only evil in the "it's ok to murder people by the millions if it achieves my goals" way; which in fiction, for some reason, isn't a barrier at all to being a sympathetic character. He opposes the Empire's xenophobia and in-fighting
so he's not the "bad" kind of evil, he's just the "cool" kind of evil; he's meant to be a popular character who Imperial players can look at as "our guy", the face of the Empire we can support.

That's why it would be interesting if his death-seeking nature actually puts him in the Emperor's camp when the time comes and Marr finally learns of it. Since it's obvious that both the Empire and Republic are going to have the Emperor as one of the major "Big Bad" threats down the line - possibly even being held back specifically to be the last major boss of the whole game's lifecycle, having "our guy" Marr side against the team we'd all assume he'd be leading would be an interesting twist.

I think Osetto might be onto something with the quote he had about Marr wanting to leave a strong Empire as his Legacy, that's a very convincing reason for why Marr would still oppose the Emperor after learning the truth. But if he came to believe that creating a God-Emperor would be the ultimate legacy for the Empire itself, I think he might still side against the Galaxy.
I think if Marr defected it would be yet another slap in the face for Empire players who have their favourite NPCs constantly killed off. In all honesty I think Marr has been firmly established as the de-facto leader of the Empire now, not just the Dark Council. He's the chief quest giver, THE guy, and is in the perfect position to have the Emperor rolled out as the Big Bad and have both factions defeat him.

If Marr were to defect however, we would be left with nothing. He's also got guts, I mean Marr is the only one would could say "the Emperor must be stopped" with a believable conviction, and I bet you that's what he'll say.

Concerning the "death is our solace" quote - I think its important to know the context:

Darth Marr's creed is "Life is the enemy. Death is our solace." Fueled by a zealous dedication to battle, he believes that personal strength and evolution are won only through conflict. To Marr, death is inevitable and necessary, a fate that only cowards waste energy avoiding.

...

Stripped of his emotions and most of his humanity, Darth Marr recognizes his death is approaching. As his final legacy, Marr vows to ensure that the Empire is strong enough to survive long into the future.


In a similar way to Malgus, he believes that only through conflict can one achieve true power. To test oneself in battle and either find oneself lacking, or become stronger. In such a way "Life is the enemy." because life is about embracing conflict, battling against ones enemies, and becoming stronger because of it.

So Marr isn't really a nihilistic or something, he just doesn't fear death, and sees it as pointless as dedicating energies into preventing it, as many Sith - including the Emperor himself do - and that instead that energy should be directed towards the battle that is life. He embraces the edict of the Sith Code "peace is a lie" completely and utterly.

Creating a God-Emperor, in that way, would be in opposition to his principles. Its the ultimate attempt to avoid death by eradicating conflict, and a failure to embrace death's inevitability and the the conflict of life.

P.S. Its interesting what you say about Marr being a sympathetic character. I think we have to remember that Marr hasn't really done anything "evil" yet, you can't even accuse his of being a douche dumb@ss.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
02.18.2014 , 05:20 AM | #24
I love the Valentine's Day message by Nadia Grell.
It should read "And you and I", though.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
02.19.2014 , 12:09 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by CourtneyWoods View Post
Happy Valentine's Day everyone!

I have your usual Lore Fact of the Day, but I also wanted to direct you to our Facebook page to check out short messages from the Companions of SWTOR. The messages from the Bounty Hunter, Consular, Inquisitor, and Trooper Companions are up now, but we will be updating this album with the rest of the Companions today and Monday. Hope you enjoy! Have a wonderful Friday!
Is it just me or are some still missing?

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
02.19.2014 , 02:29 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Sorei View Post
Is it just me or are some still missing?
I guess Vette was shy
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
02.19.2014 , 03:31 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
I guess Vette was shy
Personally, I am more curious about Vector's and Quinn's messages