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Sith Warrior a Darth or Lord?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Sith Warrior a Darth or Lord?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.11.2014 , 06:46 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
You said it was never retconed, but then said you didn't count retroactive continuity? I don't understand.

Name a single example before SWTOR when Darth and Lord were ever explicitly established to be separate titles. They absolutely were not in the movies. With Maul, Vader and Sidious, they was used synonymously.

"This is my apprentice Darth Maul, he will find your lost ship."
"Lord Maul, be mindful. Let them make the first move."

Darth Bane and the lore surrounding him existed before the Bane trilogy. It was written after Darth Revan was created. Those books contradicted more than one thing about previous versions of his story.
Sorry what I meant was not retconning as in "adding stuff" but retconning as in changing stuff. I realise saying "retroactive" really didn't make much sense, but it seems to appeal more to the former part.

And the Bane Trilogy (I believe) was the first to make the distinction between Lord and Darth. Though honestly it was probably before, the Bane Trilogy all to effortlessly seemed to make that distinction as if it were already canon.

And yes, here we are mixing up the official title with a formal address. Sith Lords, regardless of rank, are referred to as "Lord" when talking to then in person. And they are referred to as Darth when not. You'll never here Darth Sidious talking about Maul as "Lord Maul" - but you will often, if not always see him talking to Maul as "Lord Maul."

This is the same for pretty much everything. Almost always when referring to a Sith Lord, the person will call them either "Lord X" or just X, rarely if ever Darth X. And they'll never call them "Lord" when referring to them, always Darth, unless their title is Lord of course. Its simply a formality, nothing more. Its got nothing to do with the Lord title.

Just like you wouldn't address the Queen as Queen Elizabeth, but "your Majesty."

Admittedly yes in the movies the Lord title just didn't exist, but it was a formality all the same. Basically its been added but its never been changed, but I expect that is in part what you were getting at.

Sith-Viscera's Avatar


Sith-Viscera
02.11.2014 , 06:50 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by BenKatarn View Post
To my recollection, the "Darth" title for Sith Warriors was shoehorned in shortly before the game went live. Originally, Warriors would officially be recognized as the "Emperor's Wrath" by the Dark Council upon you dealing with Baras and that would have been your title instead of Darth. But apparently, there were both people who were whining about being spoiled by the title and those who wanted to also be a Darth.

Hence, the "Emperor's Wrath" title was removed and Warriors got the "Darth" instead.
You are absolutely right, I was one of the beta testers when this was an issue during the later beta stage but it wasn't Nuked till shortly after Launch, do to the people complaining. As you stated.
I was one against the change, i thought we the Sith Warriors, should had both options to choose from but not both titles at same time. Hell i am for bring back the Emperor's Wrath title and let us, choose which one we wish to be recognized as.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.11.2014 , 06:51 AM | #33
To be quite honest, I'm confused why they got rid of the Emperor's Wrath title...

Millardkillmoore's Avatar


Millardkillmoore
02.12.2014 , 12:11 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
To be quite honest, I'm confused why they got rid of the Emperor's Wrath title...
Because people threw a fit over it. But no matter how much we ask for it, Bounty Hunter players still haven't gotten a "The Mandalorian" title.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.12.2014 , 05:25 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Millardkillmoore View Post
Because people threw a fit over it. But no matter how much we ask for it, Bounty Hunter players still haven't gotten a "The Mandalorian" title.
You don't understand how much I want that title.

ellrochell's Avatar


ellrochell
02.17.2014 , 02:27 PM | #36
I would say Wrath is above the Council, there is only one Wrath... plenty of Darths. Inquisitor fan boys will probably say no but it is what it is, he could kill a Dark Council member without question the council members cant just do that.

Stanimir's Avatar


Stanimir
02.20.2014 , 02:44 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by ellrochell View Post
I would say Wrath is above the Council, there is only one Wrath... plenty of Darths. Inquisitor fan boys will probably say no but it is what it is, he could kill a Dark Council member without question the council members cant just do that.
This isn't accurate. Marr explicitly says the Wrath may act with impunity -if his actions are in line with the Dark Council.-

It's a tenuous relationship which is illustrated well on Makeb.

Concerning the titles, Zash says that only a Darth may raise an apprentice to the status of Lord in the SI story on DK. There is a finite hierarchy for the titles within the Empire at this time.

Kaan removed this, as envious lords would seek a Darth's power to create their own powerbase of lords, destroying the best sith and leaving the sith vulnerable. He made everyone a "Sith Lord" to catalyze an emergent sense of unity within the order.

Bane rejects this, as we know. He claims that there are no "Darths" because no one is worthy to defend and own the title. To the Bane sith, "Lord" and "Darth" are the same, as any lord of the sith worthy of the rule of two is a "Darth." The two terms become interchangeable as one necessarily begets the other in the confined space of the Rule of Two.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
02.20.2014 , 05:07 PM | #38
The Wrath and the Dark Council are in kind of a nebulous position in the power structure. Both of them answer only to the Emperor, neither are in charge of the other. The Wrath has sort of a more unique position than the others so in a sense he has more power and freedom than the other 12, but his job is executing people. Their job is ruling the Empire, so in another way they have more influence than him.

Sangiban's Avatar


Sangiban
03.11.2014 , 12:51 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
The Wrath and the Dark Council are in kind of a nebulous position in the power structure. Both of them answer only to the Emperor, neither are in charge of the other. The Wrath has sort of a more unique position than the others so in a sense he has more power and freedom than the other 12, but his job is executing people. Their job is ruling the Empire, so in another way they have more influence than him.
The way I interpret it is that in theory the Wrath is higher than the Council (as the title I think outranks Darth), but in practice they're equals.

This is how I think the Sith Hierarchy is (in terms of rank)

Emperor

Wrath/Hand/Darth on the Dark Council

Darth not on the Dark Council

Lord

Apprentice

Acolyte
Quote: Originally Posted by My Lord Sheogorath, Daedric Prince of Madness View Post
I suppose an introduction is in order. I'm Sshheogorath, PRRRRINCE. OF. MADNESS! And... other things. I'm not talking about them.

Lium's Avatar


Lium
03.17.2014 , 09:04 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post

The idea behind the word Darth has probably been the most often retconed idea in Star Wars.
This exactly. And it's all because of the prequels. Before they came out, it seems like most of the Sith Lords in the EU were not Darths. They had names like Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Ulic-Qel Droma, Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord, and Freedon Nadd. Then Lucas came out with Darth Sidious and Darth Maul and suddenly the idea that Darth was a title and not Vader's first name became prevalent throughout Star Wars canon.

BioWare greatly added to this with KOTOR. And the lore hasn't been the same since. I've always maintained that the title Darth should only be reserved for the leader of the Sith Order, such as the Emperor and his Wrath. Everyone else would be Lords.

By having so many Darths running around it completely dilutes the effect of seeing one. A Darth is the face of darkness in Star Wars and the main evil - The Enemy so to speak. But now it's just a title that basically just means "General".