Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.11.2014 , 07:43 AM | #431
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Your assessment is flawed but you are not likely to understand, you overlook lot of stuff about Sith Emperor (do not properly assess his canonical position and known feats). You have this mindset of "me being always correct." In-fact, your assessment about Sidious is also filled with lot of hype and assumptions but as usual you make it seem like as if Sith Emperor is a joke in comparison to him and you want people to believe that a guy who almost got killed by Mara Jade is stronger then Sith Emperor? You've got to be kidding me.

This entire ranking procedure is flawed to be precise. Where do you rank lets say Darth Nox and Darth Thanaton?

Darth Nox wielded "combined might of 6 powerful Sith Lords" and this kind of power was needed to defeat Darth Thanaton.

Also, where do you rank Exal Kressh? She destroyed an entire space station with her powers.
I'd rather not bring in personal bias to reasoned debate, if I am correct by arguments will demonstrate it, if I am not then you should have little trouble disputing them. Yet you've yet to provide argument that holds up to scrutiny in regards to the Caedus vs Sith Emperor debate. If your willing to continue that debate, as opposed to simply deciding I am wrong and will never understand why, then by all means do. But in so far I've found your arguments inadequate I'm afraid.

All in all, claiming I have a "me being always correct" mentality while simultaneously asserting the legitimacy of your own arguments (none of which you have yet to concede) comes across as a tad hypocritical to me.

In regards to the Sith Emperor vs Sidious. I don't believe he is a joke in comparison and if it comes across as that way I can assure you its unintentional. The only thing I would assert is that Sidious is very solidly superior to the Sith Emperor in almost every respect. And there is really little if any room for disputing that fact.

And I'd already explained, we do not know what Nox, Thanaton's and even Kressh' position is in regards to the hundreds of other Force Users in the Sith Empire. To place them on the list would be to claim them more powerful than all other members of the Dark Council who ever where, and then some, I'm not prepared to do that.

On top of that Nox and Thanaton are grossly lacking in assessable feats. We can recognise their power, but we simply do not possess enough information to even begin to rank them. Surely you can see this.

That said, I'm not confident they do deserve a place on any of these lists. With maybe the exception of Nox I don't think they surpass the likes of Darth Bane, Malgus and Traya, to whom they would have to contend.

P.S. There are a wealth of exceptional circumstances regarding that "duel" between Mara Jade and Caedus, mainly that Caedus was never actually in a position to attack with his lightsaber, it is not grounds for anything much.

S_W_LeGenD's Avatar


S_W_LeGenD
02.11.2014 , 08:39 AM | #432
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'd rather not bring in personal bias to reasoned debate, if I am correct by arguments will demonstrate it, if I am not then you should have little trouble disputing them. Yet you've yet to provide argument that holds up to scrutiny in regards to the Caedus vs Sith Emperor debate. If your willing to continue that debate, as opposed to simply deciding I am wrong and will never understand why, then by all means do. But in so far I've found your arguments inadequate I'm afraid.
All of us are biased about these matters one way or another, do not try to pretend that you are not.

I have done my homework about Sith Emperor as per your favorite criteria and presented it to the community, now you do yours after thoroughly checking my latest work. It contains all the answers you need.

Unfortunately, this is your response:

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
My assessment is perfectly adequate, and your criticisms leveled at it were ultimately proven inadequate and in some cases verging on ridiculous. That said I respect your assessment, but I don't believe it contradicts my own explicitly.

That said your assessment is far from perfect.
This reinforces my perspective about you that you simply chose to ignore my latest assessment about known capabilities of Sith Emperor. My criticisms are not inadequate, you just choose to ignore them or find gaps in them to exploit.

Your assessment of Sith Emperor is flawed and inadequate which is apparent from my assessment about the same character. You can only revisit your assessment after you pay proper attention to my homework. Otherwise, you will just falsely reiterate that my criticisms have been inadequate.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
All in all, claiming I have a "me being always correct" mentality while simultaneously asserting the legitimacy of your own arguments (none of which you have yet to concede) comes across as a tad hypocritical to me.
I concede where I feel it becomes necessary, I am not rigid without reason. If an argument has not ended, it has not ended for a reason. You have homework to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
In regards to the Sith Emperor vs Sidious. I don't believe he is a joke in comparison and if it comes across as that way I can assure you its unintentional. The only thing I would assert is that Sidious is very solidly superior to the Sith Emperor in almost every respect. And there is really little if any room for disputing that fact.
Your assessment about both characters does gives this kind of impression. Key difference is that Sidious is much more explored and well-defined character in comparison to Sith Emperor who is a newcomer to the mythos. This is why, comparison between these two is unfair at the moment. Their is so much information about Sidious to consult and use, simple.

And no! Sidious is not solidly superior to Sith Emperor in almost every respect. You try to present this picture with lot of hype and personal theories in favor of Sidious as apparent from this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685181

When I will have ample time, I will address all of your responses. For the time being, make do with my homework.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
And I'd already explained, we do not know what Nox, Thanaton's and even Kressh' position is in regards to the hundreds of other Force Users in the Sith Empire. To place them on the list would be to claim them more powerful than all other members of the Dark Council who ever where, and then some, I'm not prepared to do that.

On top of that Nox and Thanaton are grossly lacking in assessable feats. We can recognise their power, but we simply do not possess enough information to even begin to rank them. Surely you can see this.
And this is why the ranking criteria that you are promoting is flawed, some characters are more well-defined then others and your ranking criteria favors them over lesser defined ones.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That said, I'm not confident they do deserve a place on any of these lists. With maybe the exception of Nox I don't think they surpass the likes of Darth Bane, Malgus and Traya, to whom they would have to contend.
You don't think? See, your perceptions are not necessarily true.

None of these Sith Lords have mastered the Force in ways like Darth Nox have, neither have found a way to wield the "combined might of several (powerful) Force-users" to contend with Darth Nox.

Think about it, Khem Val alone was a powerhouse and Darth Nox not just wielded his powers and might but that of 5 other dangerous Force-users. Darth Nox is simply too strong for anybody to challenge barring few in the entire mythos. Extremely talented Sith Inquisitors are the mightiest bad@sses among the Sith in the mythos. Sith Emperor himself is a Sith Inquisitor.

In-fact, Sidious also progressed from Warrior to Inquisitor curriculum to improve his abilities.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
P.S. There are a wealth of exceptional circumstances regarding that "duel" between Mara Jade and Caedus, mainly that Caedus was never actually in a position to attack with his lightsaber, it is not grounds for anything much.
And what are these wealth of exceptional circumstances?

By this logic, many duels have some kind of circumstances affiliated with them. Unless odds are heavily stacked against an individual, he is unlikely to loose if he is superior to the opposition or rely on cheap tricks to pull off a victory.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.11.2014 , 09:27 AM | #433
Without going to in-depth into the comparison between these two individuals, I would say this: Darth Plagueis is likely the second most powerful Sith Lord in the entire Banite line, he certainly stands head and shoulders above Vader and he was easily a match for Sidious himself, he has serious power in every single sphere of Force usage, I do not believe the Sith Emperor can claim the same.

The Sith Emperor's combative abilities by comparison are amateur hour, I wouldn't even believe the statement that the Sith Emperor himself stands up to either Exar Kun or Darth Traya in a one on one confrontation, I believe that his combative powers are seriously lacking and that is why he falls short.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.11.2014 , 09:47 AM | #434
Wait, wait....this has been about Force combat ability/application the whole time?? .....Or just for this?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.11.2014 , 09:53 AM | #435
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Wait, wait....this has been about Force combat ability/application the whole time?? .....Or just for this?
No, it's about Force prowess over-all, however offensive combat abilities are something the Sith Emperor lacks in by comparison to others, which is why i think he falls short of so many others.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.11.2014 , 10:00 AM | #436
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
No, it's about Force prowess over-all, however offensive combat abilities are something the Sith Emperor lacks in by comparison to others, which is why i think he falls short of so many others.
Ah....k I figured but just wanted to be sure, though yeah he does. Why Plageuis is below Vitiate in the first place I have no idea.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.11.2014 , 10:04 AM | #437
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
It seems you've summoned him Aurbere *slow clap*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6kOvO1SUE

Edit: Legend, I will respond to you shortly.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.11.2014 , 11:04 AM | #438
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Vitiate is not just powerful but canonically supremely powerful.
Drop the 'supremely' bit. I don't care what he's called. I only care about what he's done.

Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
You talk about devastation? Check out the capabilities of Sith Emperor's apprentice: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707012

Now imagine what Sith Emperor himself is capable of.
Good for Exal Kressh. I don't think I will imagine what the Emperor is capable of, instead I will refer to what he has actually done. It's how I've operated in the past, and how I will continue to operate.

Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Plagueis's feat of "all about atomize" some defenseless humans is being blown out of proportion by some people. In contrast, Sith Emperor can do this to even Force-users and armored droids.
Destroying armored humans with telekinesis requires much more power than destroying others with Force lightning. There is a very big difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan:

Spoiler
Beni, Chapter 3 has me stymied, is this the correct context?

Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
One more thing, Muun do not loose powers even while being heavily injured, this is implied in Star Wars: Darth Plagueis:

Spoiler
Wow, that would actually be effective if I didn't own that novel. Too bad I do. You've taken that quote completely wrong and you've misunderstood my argument. Let me suggest two things for you to do:

1. Don't post quotes out of context and assume that they will sway your adversary.
2. Always assume that I am smarter than you. Your best option now is to give up to spare yourself further embarrassment.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
02.11.2014 , 11:20 AM | #439
No, it's not the correct context Aurbere, because Scourge also had visions of their Victory, and Visions of their escape even. All the other visions were obsolete, as he believed only one of them.

Also, those preminitions were the future, every possible outcome, doesn't mean it's all things Vitiate could have been able to do.

Tl;DR, no, not the right context.

Edit: Oh, and can we please stop acknowledging this ridiculous fanboy as an actual debater and get back to the debates that matter? Rest of us are in agreement, he won't sway, what we're doing now is pointless, just change it Beni.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.11.2014 , 11:34 AM | #440
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
No, it's not the correct context Aurbere, because Scourge also had visions of their Victory, and Visions of their escape even. All the other visions were obsolete, as he believed only one of them.

Also, those preminitions were the future, every possible outcome, doesn't mean it's all things Vitiate could have been able to do.

Tl;DR, no, not the right context.
Thanks, Sel.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus