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eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.07.2014 , 12:20 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
That aside, the one thing I would ask of the developers is to just give us all the freaking missions in the list every time. I'm just going to relog until I get the missions I want anyway.
*Shrug* Or maybe the devs could put in some code to detect relogins and "save" you mission list for you Anyway, just run one quick level 1 mission and it resets the list.

TBH, I like the randomized mission lists. You should have at least two skills with missions, and (at level 450) 7 tiers for each of those skills, and you can only run 5 missions at a time. That's plenty, and it [helps] keep people from killing the market by only running the most profitable missions.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
02.07.2014 , 08:59 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
*Shrug* Or maybe the devs could put in some code to detect relogins and "save" you mission list for you Anyway, just run one quick level 1 mission and it resets the list.

TBH, I like the randomized mission lists. You should have at least two skills with missions, and (at level 450) 7 tiers for each of those skills, and you can only run 5 missions at a time. That's plenty, and it [helps] keep people from killing the market by only running the most profitable missions.
We do it anyway. Run only the most profitable missions, that is. We do it by selecting missions we don't want, relogging, and one by one cancelling the missions we didn't want and taking those we did.

It's not killing the market, unless you think the market is killed.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
02.07.2014 , 09:48 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
We do it anyway. Run only the most profitable missions, that is. We do it by selecting missions we don't want, relogging, and one by one cancelling the missions we didn't want and taking those we did.

It's not killing the market, unless you think the market is killed.
I know there are a lot of individuals on the forums who claim they do this, but how many in the player population do it?

Even if a thousand forum-goers do it and a hundred times that (who don't post) does it as well, that's only 10% of the active account population (of approximately one million). And I do not think the numbers are that high.

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
02.07.2014 , 10:55 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
I know there are a lot of individuals on the forums who claim they do this, but how many in the player population do it?

Even if a thousand forum-goers do it and a hundred times that (who don't post) does it as well, that's only 10% of the active account population (of approximately one million). And I do not think the numbers are that high.
I think this is probably correct. I'm pretty sure those of us that do the "logout dance" are very much in the minority. I'll bet the majority of the player population doesn't even know that works, and others either don't want to bother, or don't know why they even should bother.

Personally - I've been playing this game regularly for about 15 months, and I only learned how/why to do the missions I want within the past couple of weeks (and incidentally, thanks to DarthTHC and psandak, respectively, for enlightening me on the how and why). I've passed some of this on to a couple of interested guildies, but it was all new to them, and they've been playing considerably longer than I have.

I'm not sure displaying all the available missions at once would make any real impact on the economy, largely because of exactly this kind of widespread ignorance. I'm certain a lot of people would be perfectly happy to run only the cheapest missions they see (moderate yield), thinking it's a better strategy than "wasting" credits on rich/bountiful missions.
Hey, Barsen'thor Bill
What did you kill
Barsen'thor Bill

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psandak's Avatar


psandak
02.07.2014 , 11:36 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
I think this is probably correct. I'm pretty sure those of us that do the "logout dance" are very much in the minority. I'll bet the majority of the player population doesn't even know that works, and others either don't want to bother, or don't know why they even should bother.

Personally - I've been playing this game regularly for about 15 months, and I only learned how/why to do the missions I want within the past couple of weeks (and incidentally, thanks to DarthTHC and psandak, respectively, for enlightening me on the how and why). I've passed some of this on to a couple of interested guildies, but it was all new to them, and they've been playing considerably longer than I have.

I'm not sure displaying all the available missions at once would make any real impact on the economy, largely because of exactly this kind of widespread ignorance. I'm certain a lot of people would be perfectly happy to run only the cheapest missions they see (moderate yield), thinking it's a better strategy than "wasting" credits on rich/bountiful missions.
I am one of those who does not bother (99% of the time) even though I know it's possible.

My reason is simple: each character has two crew skills worth of missions in addition to crafting, and 99% of the time there are five things worth doing...even gift missions (I am always leveling an alt, so gifts are always used eventually). That remaining 1% is the result of serendipitous occasions when the random mission set is lacking, but I am going to change areas anyway, so I take advantage of the area change to refresh the mission lists.

IMO listing all missions would impact the economy, albeit mildly. You're right that too many don't do the math, see 2000 credits for abundant and 3210 for rich and think, "I'll do the cheaper one." But I think they are in the minority too. The majority have done the math and know what's the best cacophony for the credit ("bang for the buck" ). So, the expeditious thing to do would be to phase out lesser missions as better missions become available. Eventually for gathering skills one would always have the moderate mission for vendor materials, two bountiful, and two rich missions per gathering skill; and two abundant, two bountiful, and one rich for mission skills. There's still choices to be made: with five companions and only three rich missions (assuming one crafting, one gathering, one mission skill); not to mention what materials to focus on.

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
02.07.2014 , 02:30 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
I am one of those who does not bother (99% of the time) even though I know it's possible.

My reason is simple: each character has two crew skills worth of missions in addition to crafting, and 99% of the time there are five things worth doing...even gift missions (I am always leveling an alt, so gifts are always used eventually). That remaining 1% is the result of serendipitous occasions when the random mission set is lacking, but I am going to change areas anyway, so I take advantage of the area change to refresh the mission lists
Just responding to the portion of your post quoted above: I understand, and upon reflection, I actually do the same in some situations. I have eight alts right now, but I'm only actively playing/leveling two of them. Those two are both scavengers (and UT; one armormech, one cybertech, all 450). I don't do the logout dance when I'm playing those characters, because as you said, in short order I'll change areas and the list will reset anyway. Or I'll simply run what's presented to me, knowing that I'll get what I want later.

However, with the other alts, I just want to get them working on the most potentially profitable missions ASAP - so I can get back to actually playing the other guys. My two slicing 450's fall into this category. I do the logout dance with them constantly. I'm sure I'll get back to playing the other alts regularly at some point, at which point the dancing will likely cease for them, but for now, I feel like any other strategy would just be a waste of my time. I mean, I'm not going to have them run a mission just for the sake of running a mission...and if they're not actively out there working on, say, Unsliceable? - then they aren't doing anything for me at all.
Hey, Barsen'thor Bill
What did you kill
Barsen'thor Bill

Zuckerkorn Bøbløblaw SylvesterMcbean TøbiasFünke MaximilianPower Jedi Covenant
100% GSF cheevs

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.07.2014 , 03:00 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
We do it anyway. Run only the most profitable missions, that is. We do it by selecting missions we don't want, relogging, and one by one cancelling the missions we didn't want and taking those we did.

It's not killing the market, unless you think the market is killed.
"Killing" is probably a bit strong, but I think having all missions available would cause more harm than good. There are seven mission tiers and we can only have five companions out running missions. One crafting skill leaves room for two mission skills, so that's 14 craft-tiers available. If all missions were always available, I think people (being lazy) would try to figure out which were the most profitable and only run them. While that would work for a little while, I think we'd quickly get to the point where the "most profitable" mission goods oversaturated the market, and the 9-11 of 14 craft-tiers not being run would become scarce.

Technically, that would make the market more player-driven, as players would have to adapt their mission selections to reflect the change in which materials were in low supply (and thus should sell at higher prices, causing the five most-profitable mission-tiers to change over time). So, if I'm still going to end up potentially running all craft-tiers, I'll take the "lazy way" and just see which missions the RNG gods have given me today.

Also, it's more of which mission skills I run, not the tier of the mission itself, that (to me) determines my profits. E.g., I only run investigation missions to level up my alt's investigation skill or if I need a specific mat. I don't run them to sell for profit. I've never had a time when I couldn't find five profitable scavenging missions. IMO, you have to try not to make money with swtor's crafting system. As long as I keep making credits every time I log in, I have no real motivation to waste time logging out and back in.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.07.2014 , 04:01 PM | #18
This has been an interesting thought process to follow.

On the one hand, I do the logout dance all the time, across several crafting toons, cherry-picking the optimal missions and relogging as needed. So I would be happy to have the convenience of a full mission list and NOT having to relog.

On the other hand, I think it's a fair bet that many other players don't relog, or don't relog as often. Therefore, my efforts give me an edge in the marketplace. I work hard to get a stack of 99 Thermal Regulators to sell on the GTN. And they're a) relatively rare and b) in demand so I can be assured of selling them at a decent price.

Basically, I'm rewarded for taking the extra effort to relog to get the best missions at all times.

It's a funny dilemma. Would I be willing to forego long term profits in exchange for a more convenient method of running crafting missions?

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.07.2014 , 04:20 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
It's a funny dilemma. Would I be willing to forego long term profits in exchange for a more convenient method of running crafting missions?
The real question is how would you react if BW was able to close the re-login exploit (which, no matter victimless it may appear, it is) and didn't change the mission RNG?

FYI, I don't think it's a big deal, but it is an exploit. I don't think whatever damage being done by the current exploiters justifies spending any effort to address it, but if effort does get spent, I would rather it be to keep the system and close the loop hole, not make the loop hole unnecessary by changing the system for what IMO would be the worse.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
02.07.2014 , 04:35 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
The real question is how would you react if BW was able to close the re-login exploit (which, no matter victimless it may appear, it is) and didn't change the mission RNG?

FYI, I don't think it's a big deal, but it is an exploit. I don't think whatever damage being done by the current exploiters justifies spending any effort to address it, but if effort does get spent, I would rather it be to keep the system and close the loop hole, not make the loop hole unnecessary by changing the system for what IMO would be the worse.
Is that really an exploit? Seems like a stretch to call it that. Changing areas has the same effect as logging out. So if, instead of logging out, I stood in front of the elevator on fleet and clicked the button repeatedly, going from, say, the cartel bazaar to main level and back over and over - would that still be an exploit? Where do you draw the line between "exploit" and "working as intended"?

I'm not even sure I'd call it a loophole. It's just a different method of refreshing the mission list. If BW didn't want us refreshing the list, they wouldn't give us multiple options to do so, would they?
Hey, Barsen'thor Bill
What did you kill
Barsen'thor Bill

Zuckerkorn Bøbløblaw SylvesterMcbean TøbiasFünke MaximilianPower Jedi Covenant
100% GSF cheevs