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New Talent ideas for Vigilance Guardian

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
New Talent ideas for Vigilance Guardian

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
01.21.2014 , 07:58 PM | #1
Hello everyone, Stengil Starbound here from The Harbinger

I have some really interesting new Vigilance Talent ideas.

Focused Leap (replaces Preparation) - Reduces the Cooldown of Force Leap by 2.5/5 seconds Decreases the minimum range of Force Leap and Saber Throw by 5/10 meters Requires Shien Form (Juggernaut Name: Breakneck Charge)

Burning Defences (replaces Commanding Awe) - Increases Burn damage by 3%/6%, When your burns deal damage you have a 20%/40% chance to obtain one stack of Burning Defence which increases your Damage Reduction by 1%/2% Requires Shien Form effect lasts 20 seconds (Juggernaut name Bleeding Defences)

Commanding Awe (replaces Gather Strength) Increases Damage reduction by 1%/2% and reduces the cooldown of Awe by 7.5/15 Seconds, also when Awe is activated the damage of all nearby party members is increased by 2.5%/5% for 5/10 seconds Requires Shien Form. (Retains Juggernaut name [aka i dont remember the juggernaut name for this talent])

Edit: New idea thought of by Rydarus: Unremitting - Force Leap and Guardian Leap grant 1 stack of Unremitting. When Master Strike is activated you consume 1 stack of Unremitting and become Immune to Physics and Crowd Controlling Effects for the duration of Master Strike.

This would make Guardians deal more damage, though Focused Leap may make them slightly OP... but Burning Defences would make Burns more useful, and the new Commanding Awe would make Vigilance have some party utility. I know they may be a bit OP, but we have to think out of the box for new Vigilance talents because, even though RNG is being abolished in 2.6 we still dont parse quite as high as other classes.

I really like Rydarus' Idea about Unremitting and put it here for new people to more easily see, if you are coming into this thread late or something.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
01.21.2014 , 08:41 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Decreases the minimum range of Force Leap and Saber Throw by 5/10 meters Requires Shien Form (Juggernaut Name: Breakneck Charge)
There goes the need for the set bonus :P

Manweth's Avatar


Manweth
01.21.2014 , 10:27 PM | #3
Other seems okay,

BUT I'LL NEVER TRADE MY %4 ALLTIME ACTIVE DAMAGE REDUCTION.

It's too *********** awesome.

I'd just remove defense procs from Burning whatever and keep %4 dmg red. on commanding awe.

That's one skill that enables Vigilance to become the best offtank in most situations. And I'm not even mentioning the overall damage taken compared to other specs.

You CANNOT give up that redution, it also applies to elemental and internal.

It's too gosh darn super duper hyper *********** awesome.
I'm done Dear Class Balance Team.
You've broken me. I now know you hate all sages and guardians.
Have fun giggling with your metas.

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
01.22.2014 , 01:06 AM | #4
Also close range leap is *********** overrated. The reason why it exists on watchman is SIMPLE. They have another gap closer. They have Force Camoflage, they have transcendance, they have a BAJILLION substitute closers. We do not have that.

All that a close range leap would mean is idiots would do stupid stuff to decrease mobility and get themselves kited in PVP and lose DPS in PVE.
Rydarus of Aisthesis, Ebon Hawk's First Conqueror of Voss
GuardDPS PVE guide: http://dulfy.net/2014/01/30/swtor-vi...s-class-guide/
JuggDPS PVE guide: http://dulfy.net/2014/01/20/swtor-ve...s-class-guide/

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
01.22.2014 , 03:24 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Also close range leap is *********** overrated. The reason why it exists on watchman is SIMPLE. They have another gap closer. They have Force Camoflage, they have transcendance, they have a BAJILLION substitute closers. We do not have that.

All that a close range leap would mean is idiots would do stupid stuff to decrease mobility and get themselves kited in PVP and lose DPS in PVE.
From a pvp standpoint I couldn't disagree more. I'm a strong advocate for a leap cd reduction as well as the removal of the minimum range.

In pvp it is very easy to kite a vig guard. Many ranged players are quite good at staying out of melee range but too close to use leap. Your alternative is one of two things:

1) grd leap away and leap back. However the drawback to this is that in the time it take to swap target to a friendly, grd leap, swap target back, leap, and begin rotation you've lost precious time during which you could apply pressure. This is even more important versus a healer who can effectively heal to full in their respite of having to run.
2) swap targets. The drawback to this is pretty obvious.

However if the minimum range was removed I'd be able to do a short range leap, rooting the target, with the added bonus of being able to deliver my ms uninterrupted.

Bads are bads regardless of a minimum range on leap.

With the amount of cc in pvp, and how melee intensive this spec is, it would be a huge improvement. I would argue that because we ONLY have one gap closer, that it is all the more reason to reduce its cd and remove minimum range.
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Manweth's Avatar


Manweth
01.22.2014 , 03:30 AM | #6
Put it in FOCUS tree then. Somewhere low so Vigi PvPers can take it.

I don't want a rangeless leap on my already bloated tree.

It has no use in PvE. And we most definitely don't want it on our own tree.

We ARE NOT WATCHMEN.

Period.
I'm done Dear Class Balance Team.
You've broken me. I now know you hate all sages and guardians.
Have fun giggling with your metas.

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
01.22.2014 , 03:36 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Manweth View Post
Put it in FOCUS tree then. Somewhere low so Vigi PvPers can take it.

I don't want a rangeless leap on my already bloated tree.

It has no use in PvE. And we most definitely don't want it on our own tree.

We ARE NOT WATCHMEN.

Period.
Tbh, these improvements could be added to any of the tier four talents in the vig tree. It most definitely does not belong anywhere accessible by focus spec. They already have zealous leap which is a short range leap that ignores immobilizing effects on top of normal force leap.
Kype Lightwave/Telaan Lightwave -Pot5- "Pistols' RP Apprentice"
Telaan Lightwave Pre-CU Jedi Knight -JKO- Bloodfin
Master LS/Master Defender/Healing 2xxx/Enhancer xxx3

Manweth's Avatar


Manweth
01.22.2014 , 04:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Telaan View Post
Tbh, these improvements could be added to any of the tier four talents in the vig tree. It most definitely does not belong anywhere accessible by focus spec. They already have zealous leap which is a short range leap that ignores immobilizing effects on top of normal force leap.
Well we already suffer from a bloated tree and it's not needed for us in PvE rotation.

Just drop the idea I'd say, the gain is far outshined by the dangers it precipitate.

We don't need a rangeless leap. Half the spec's mobility comes from effective timing of the leap, and if you put in a talent for that, you are turning us into half-assed Watchmen.

We really really really don't need it.
I'm done Dear Class Balance Team.
You've broken me. I now know you hate all sages and guardians.
Have fun giggling with your metas.

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
01.22.2014 , 04:48 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Manweth View Post
Well we already suffer from a bloated tree and it's not needed for us in PvE rotation.

Just drop the idea I'd say, the gain is far outshined by the dangers it precipitate.

We don't need a rangeless leap. Half the spec's mobility comes from effective timing of the leap, and if you put in a talent for that, you are turning us into half-assed Watchmen.

We really really really don't need it.
We'll have to agree to disagree. It is needed for pvp. I don't wish for this conversation to go back down the road it was previously; but don't forget that those of us who choose to pvp aren't entitled to any less than the pve side of the house.

I agree that we suffer from a bloated skill tree which is why I suggested adding to an existing talent. You, as a pve'er, are not interested in it, but many of us in the pvp community are. As many in the pve community see debilitation as a pvp specific talent, that might not be a bad place to add the leap improvements.
Kype Lightwave/Telaan Lightwave -Pot5- "Pistols' RP Apprentice"
Telaan Lightwave Pre-CU Jedi Knight -JKO- Bloodfin
Master LS/Master Defender/Healing 2xxx/Enhancer xxx3

Mega_Fallos's Avatar


Mega_Fallos
01.22.2014 , 05:02 AM | #10
Excellent! And new high teer talent 'kill them all" Your bleeding efects that criticaly hits have 15/30% chanse to activate God Mode
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