Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
01.20.2014 , 04:08 PM | #1811
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
The tanks in lowbie fps who can't hold a group together, don't even apply guard to anyone.
I tend to agree with that. Despite the lack of an aoe-taunt, it's fairly easy to hold aggro from entire groups in lower fps as most of them aren't spread out. Even as a Juggernaut.

Guarding the healer, because lots of enemies attack him is usually more like trying to cure the symptoms rather than the sickness.
In order to prevent enemies from attacking the healer, only a bit of damage is neccessary (way less than it would be neccessary to prevent them from attacking DPS who are attacking them or using AOEs). In lower level fps it's easy to deal a bit of damage to every enemy and if a single weak/normal enemy is out of range and is attacking the healer, he will survive that even without the 5% damage reduction.
If DPS tunnelvision it's still better to guard them because they may take aggro away from you and take damage. If they don't do their job properly, screw them and just tank all the other enemies and let them deal with the elite themselves. If they die, it's their fault and the healer is protected simply because you're taking the damage. He'll be happier than he'd be if everyone was attacking him and he only had a 5% damage reduction.

I, once, healed a tank in HS SM who put guard on me. When I complained about too many adds attacking me, he replied I had guard. I wanted to facepalm. When I get attacked by every single enemy except for the elites, a 5% damage reduction won't help me much. I will have to spend most of my energy and time on healing myself and the rest of the group will suffer the consequences.

It's the tank who decides whom to guard, so it's not a matter of making up for a bad tank. If he considers guarding the healer because he doesn't keep aggro, he might as well consider keeping aggro. As I stated before, it isn't so hard. Every tank has at least one AOE even at lower levels and even Juggernauts have Force Scream which helps getting aggro from a bit more distant enemies.

Some healers can be really annoying about wanting to be guarded.
In Cademinu HM, I pugged with a guild member of mine who was a pretty good mDPS. Naturally, I put guard on him because I knew he might steal aggro from me. The healer demanded guard several times even though I refused.
I knew the mechanics, I knew how to get all the enemies to focus on me, why would I guard her?

Another time, I pugged for HS SM on a Powertech as DPS (because my gear wasn't as good as I'd liked it to be, I didn't tank). Our tank guarded no one and I'm sure he didn't once used Smash because every time I used an AOE, I got all the aggro and died.
The healer (who joined after the first boss because our first healer was a DPS) did not once get aggro, yet she demanded guard. I told her I was the one who should be guarded, because I kept getting aggro, but she kept demanding guard. Our new tank (we had to kick the previous one due to ninja looting), later guarded her which upset me a little bit as she hadn't been attacked once. Her saying: "I don't care who tanks as long as I don't get attacked" upset me even more because the other DPS and I had been protecting her pretty well so far. And of course, she didn't need the 5% damage reduction a single time.


Edit: Forgot to add: If healers keep demanding guard in lower level fps because they fear they might get attacked, even more tanks without experience may start to think they need to guard the healer and not the DPS.

Dontelar's Avatar


Dontelar
01.20.2014 , 05:54 PM | #1812
Quote: Originally Posted by Deadlynits View Post
tank slapped guard on me. i politely asked to put it on slinger as he had more dps though we all 3 were ranged. but tank no reply. then after 2 mob pull. i healed slinger and me first pull. healed mando and me on sencond pull. more than healing tank. i requested him to put guard on either of dps as they pulled aggro. but tank is silent.
That is pretty much always my experience when playing as a healer. Hey tank, could you please guard the sentinel? He's pulling all your aggro. Please. PLEASE? GUARD THE SENTINEL!!! Though sometimes it's better that way, as it's not that unusual for Guardian tanks to have a focus, all DPS gear, and the least health of everyone in the group.

Deadlynits's Avatar


Deadlynits
01.20.2014 , 09:35 PM | #1813
Quote: Originally Posted by Sorei View Post
Another time, I pugged for HS SM on a Powertech as DPS (because my gear wasn't as good as I'd liked it to be, I didn't tank). Our tank guarded no one and I'm sure he didn't once used Smash because every time I used an AOE, I got all the aggro and died.
The healer (who joined after the first boss because our first healer was a DPS) did not once get aggro, yet she demanded guard. I told her I was the one who should be guarded, because I kept getting aggro, but she kept demanding guard. Our new tank (we had to kick the previous one due to ninja looting), later guarded her which upset me a little bit as she hadn't been attacked once. Her saying: "I don't care who tanks as long as I don't get attacked" upset me even more because the other DPS and I had been protecting her pretty well so far. And of course, she didn't need the 5% damage reduction a single time.
I agree with you completely, No offence. but come on man. its HS SM fp. first real fp which asks for role play. give break to new players. most dont know how that role play works for fps. either tank/dps/heals if they are new. and some dont want to admit their first. have seen that many times as well. but, its hard to die in HS SM and it costs what? 100-600 for repairs? big deal.

i know it might get frustrating. i am just saying its first proper fp of game and new players may not know anything at that time. forgive and teach is what i do at that fp or that level
if you did get pissed too much there is always leave group with dc option as well
Asuna-sao Sage 55 Darkblow Scoundrel 55 Deathstrikes Sentinal 55 Kiritosw Mercenary 55 Findme Sniper 55 Pubspy Operative 39 Shadowstab Shadow 39 Yuukii Juggernaut 22 Shadygirl Assasin 55 Lazybum Vanguard 55 Darkrage Juggernaut 55
Pillars Of Ashla Ashes Of Ashla

Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
01.21.2014 , 12:42 AM | #1814
Quote: Originally Posted by Deadlynits View Post
I agree with you completely, No offence. but come on man. its HS SM fp. first real fp which asks for role play. give break to new players. most dont know how that role play works for fps. either tank/dps/heals if they are new. and some dont want to admit their first. have seen that many times as well. but, its hard to die in HS SM and it costs what? 100-600 for repairs? big deal.

i know it might get frustrating. i am just saying its first proper fp of game and new players may not know anything at that time. forgive and teach is what i do at that fp or that level
if you did get pissed too much there is always leave group with dc option as well
You're right and believe me, I usually don't mind dying there (unless I die the entire time because someone doesn't do his job properly. This has happened only one time so far, because the healer was strange) and in that story, the dying itself wasn't the issue. But it was a horrid run with plenty of things going wrong (healer who was clearly DPS, ninjalooting tank who didn't use sweep, DPS in tank stance who didn't know it was tank stance and this healer). I didn't really mind the dying, I was only annoyed because she didn't listen at all when I told her she didn't need guard and was a bit insulted by her lack of trust when it came to her getting aggro (as I said, she didn't get attacked once and being a healer, she probably had to notice that).

I stopped pugging (though it sometimes tempts me), but I've made enough HS SM runs to know you can't expect perfection there. I don't expect it, but some things do get annoying.

Deadlynits's Avatar


Deadlynits
01.21.2014 , 12:49 AM | #1815
Quote: Originally Posted by Sorei View Post
You're right and believe me, I usually don't mind dying there (unless I die the entire time because someone doesn't do his job properly. This has happened only one time so far, because the healer was strange) and in that story, the dying itself wasn't the issue. But it was a horrid run with plenty of things going wrong (healer who was clearly DPS, ninjalooting tank who didn't use sweep, DPS in tank stance who didn't know it was tank stance and this healer). I didn't really mind the dying, I was only annoyed because she didn't listen at all when I told her she didn't need guard and was a bit insulted by her lack of trust when it came to her getting aggro (as I said, she didn't get attacked once and being a healer, she probably had to notice that).

I stopped pugging (though it sometimes tempts me), but I've made enough HS SM runs to know you can't expect perfection there. I don't expect it, but some things do get annoying.
haha true that. i have enjoyed HS fp btw. since i can get to see lots of newbie mistakes and fun. i always pug. and i do 2-3 fp per day while leveling. if its tank toon, i tend to level it through fp. my sin tank never did anything on planets. just pug runs and story and now 51 level lol. so i enjoy pug runs as you get to see good players and make friends and you can recruit as well. if you are high enough to recruit in guild.

but ya, ninja looting i hate. or maybe they dont even know anyway. i tend to explain but sometimes its blank from otherside.
Asuna-sao Sage 55 Darkblow Scoundrel 55 Deathstrikes Sentinal 55 Kiritosw Mercenary 55 Findme Sniper 55 Pubspy Operative 39 Shadowstab Shadow 39 Yuukii Juggernaut 22 Shadygirl Assasin 55 Lazybum Vanguard 55 Darkrage Juggernaut 55
Pillars Of Ashla Ashes Of Ashla

Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
01.21.2014 , 01:38 AM | #1816
Quote: Originally Posted by Deadlynits View Post
haha true that. i have enjoyed HS fp btw. since i can get to see lots of newbie mistakes and fun. i always pug. and i do 2-3 fp per day while leveling. if its tank toon, i tend to level it through fp. my sin tank never did anything on planets. just pug runs and story and now 51 level lol. so i enjoy pug runs as you get to see good players and make friends and you can recruit as well. if you are high enough to recruit in guild.

but ya, ninja looting i hate. or maybe they dont even know anyway. i tend to explain but sometimes its blank from otherside.
You must have a lot more patience than I have (I freely admit that I don't have lots of patience - exactly the reason why I don't pug)

On the topic of ninja looting: I once pugged on my Assassin as DPS for HS. We had a Sorc healer who asked right away whether he could get all the lightsaber drops. No one replied (seriously, we all were either Warriors or Inquisitors so this was a pretty bold question). He repeated the question several times. Throughout the entire fp, he needed on everything. When the first boss dropped a Juggernaut headgear, he needed on it and then (!) asked whether he could have it. I considered needing as well because of that guy, but it wasn't my decision and when the Juggertank said he could have it, I rolled greed.
The second boss dropped a pair of pants with STR. The tank rolled need, our Sorcerer, of course, rolled need as well and said: I need that!. I rolled need as well, telling the tank if I win the roll, he'd get it.
Sadly, the Sorc won the roll. The tank told him he needed it, but the Sorc just left group.
He got added to my ignore list straight afterwards. Such selfishness -.-

slafko's Avatar


slafko
01.21.2014 , 02:01 AM | #1817
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
As long as you do know that guarding the healer in that fight is probably the best choice since no way jose a dps will be able to rip from you after using that many taunts on the boss after the freeze.
I would hardly describe "one" as "that many". He drops aggro after each freeze and a dps can pull aggro once the dogs are dead but that's just a case of bad tanking then.

As for guard on the healer - just don't do it. You're not helping anyone.

toha's Avatar


toha
01.21.2014 , 02:38 AM | #1818
Guard on healer... As a healer it makes me feel all warm and fuzy inside don't know why. But other then that i see very litle use in it Ofc most tank(low lvl PuGs mostly) listen when you ask them to guard someone else
Quote: Originally Posted by Essence_of_Light View Post
Nobody wants your scams.

And if you spent your time doing this, then you are a fool. Shoo, shoo. Get lost.

Margoth's Avatar


Margoth
01.21.2014 , 11:13 AM | #1819
HM Hammer Station with 2 other Guildies and a GF Sage DPS.

Get to Mining Droid and our DPS decides he has a Lightsaber so he must be melee. He proceeds to stand on top of the tank and swing his lightsaber... Well not quite true he didn't always stand on the tank. He did decide to stand in the red circles from the exploding droids.

Conversation after the fight:
Me: You know as as a sage you're ranged, right? Your DPS swinging a lightsaber is negligible...
Him: My DPS as anything is negligible, I'm heal spec.
Me: Then why are you in as a DPS?
Him: Blame GF
Guildie 1: Did you queue as both DPS and Heals?
Him: Yes
Me: Perhaps you shouldn't if you don't have a DPS spec.
Him: You're an uptight ***hole (*** is mine)
He then proceeds to rage quite before we could vote kick him...

Not a strange group but a bad group.
PUG GF Cad. Me on my full 78 (except for 72 main hand hilt) Scoundrel heals. Just wrapping up my weekly comms to get ultimates for alt gear.

Take a quick look at the group and it's three from same guild. A little under geared 66 Purples mostly but certainly more than geared enough to do the instance. I figured with their gear I might actually have to pay some attention instead of napping through most of the FP.

Get through the beginning trash and I had to do more than just pay attention, I had to actually heal since everyone was taking aggro, including me. Eh, whatever.

Go to the bottom of the elevator. Navigate through by the shuttle. One DPS seems to be contemplating the stars or something and doesn't follow. Bot knocked off and of course the DPS ends up pulling the group of mobs. I turn around and start healing the aggroed DPS figuring the tank and other DPS will come back. Nope. Long story short wipe number 1.

Rez and head back. Make our way through the trash up until the group past the first security gate. I get into normal position to the left of the gate expecting the tank to pull the mobs into the room. Nope. Tank goes into the room guns blazing (Vanguard tank). Pulls several groups. Now some of the groups come into the room and head for the DPS. I start healing. Of course since we had so many mobs some of the start attacking me. Last a few minutes but with 5 or 6 mobs on me I go down. Wipe #2.

So...
Me: If it's not too much trouble, perhaps someone could taunt or shoot the mobs attacking the healer?
Tank: You have to give the tank time to get aggro...
Me: ok... I was healing you so you wouldn't die but if you prefer me not to heal you I'm ok with that....
Tank: <crickets chirping>

Demonstrating the definition of Insanity of repeating the same action and expecting different results we try again. This time the tank actually goes into the room outside of my LOS. I reposition so he is in in LOS and start healing. BAM instant aggro on me. 5 or 6 mobs on me. Down I go.

Deciding to cut my losses I just said in group chat, "Sorry you guys just don't know what you are doing, GL" and left group. I feel sorry for whatever healer got them next. I'm sure they proceeded to complain about the "fail" healer in guild chat....

HM Meltdown me on my Sent and 3 GF PUGS.
Clear trash with little problem. Get to the first boss (doing Sand side first).
Tank proceeds to start fight by using the console.
Needless to say he's out of position and takes an extra smash session to get to the first barrel. Commando healer can't keep us up. Go into the second barrel with less than half health on anyone. Wipe #1.

Explain the mechanics. With some pain we down the boss this time.

Move through rest of instance with little issue. Get to last boss. Take down the pylons no problem.
Boss comes down. Tank, Healer, and other DPS all stand there in Spin Attack. Wipe #2.

Me: You all have to get out of the Spin attack.
Group: <crickets chirping>

Give it another try. Pretty much same results. Again I'm the only one alive after they stand in the spin attack.

*sigh*

Tank: DPS Needs to keep up?
me: Huh? This fight is not a DPS race it's mechanics. You have to get out of spin attack. Use your break and/or your force speed.
Tank: No you guys need to do more DPS
Tank proceeds to quit.

Tank then proceeds to start sending tells to us telling us how we were doing things wrong. Private tells to me:
Tank: You can think what you want, but 30K in repairs tells me you were doing something wrong.
Me: I've tanked, healed and DPSed this boss. It's not a DPS race it's mechanics. But since you are trying to blame others you might want to look at your gear and augment for Shield/Defense/Absorb instead of willpower...
Me: But you don't have to worry about grouping with me again.

Tank goes onto my ignore list.

*sigh*

Deadlynits's Avatar


Deadlynits
01.21.2014 , 05:41 PM | #1820
Quote: Originally Posted by Margoth View Post
HM Hammer Station with 2 other Guildies and a GF Sage DPS.

Get to Mining Droid and our DPS decides he has a Lightsaber so he must be melee. He proceeds to stand on top of the tank and swing his lightsaber... Well not quite true he didn't always stand on the tank. He did decide to stand in the red circles from the exploding droids.
Hey now! we did get boost in 2.5 update for swinging saber you know?

Jedi Consular
General
Slightly increased the damage dealt by Double Strike.

why would they improve it if i am not supposed to swing at melee range
Asuna-sao Sage 55 Darkblow Scoundrel 55 Deathstrikes Sentinal 55 Kiritosw Mercenary 55 Findme Sniper 55 Pubspy Operative 39 Shadowstab Shadow 39 Yuukii Juggernaut 22 Shadygirl Assasin 55 Lazybum Vanguard 55 Darkrage Juggernaut 55
Pillars Of Ashla Ashes Of Ashla