Hey, at-least augment your gear and use a Stim before you enter a WZ.

Thanks for the tips - I definitely appreciate them, and will keep that in mind. I do tend to be extremely team oriented, though, and usually display too much loyalty to my fellow players (regardless of whether they deserve it or not), so leaving a warzone is not something I've ever done. I've also only once ever given up on a WZ to the point where I went to a node with a group of other players and just guarded it for the rest of the match, and that's only when all seven other members of our side had gone over there first. In other words, as long as there's are at least a few people continuing to fight, I will too. So... not sure how useful your tips will be for me.

However... I do use stims now. Not sure if you caught that comment.

Thank you for this - it's extremely rare for me to misspell things and I both enjoy writing and take pride in my ability. so that is definitely appreciated.

As for the rest of what you're saying, I get it that there are other options for PvE players and that kicking someone from SnV doesn't stop them from queueing for PvE altogether; however, I think it's precisely because there are no such other options for PvP players that it becomes important for a player to prioritize preparing themselves for that experience. If a player wishes to handicap his performance in a PvE environment (or just doesn't know how or doesn't care to prepare), the group he joins willingly chooses to allow that. PvP players do not have that option. It's like if I haven't taken a shower in the last week and I stink to high heaven, you have a choice to allow me to accompany you in your car pool or tell me to catch the bus. My fellow passengers on the bus do not have that choice. Is it fair, then, to ask me to take a shower?

With regards to minimal requirements, that's actually part of what I was alluding to in both my previous post and several others. As you mention, there's no real universal consensus on what constitutes a "baseline" on gear. As you know from our forum on rbsswtor.proboards.com , we've made it a priority within the Fight Club movement to try and share information back and forth; to train where we can, learn where we can't, and in general just try and bring people on Pot5 together to improve the overall PvP experience. However, having said all that, there are definitely a few obvious cases. The guy in Battlemaster gear with a 136 expertise overall (or whatever it is), the guy in full PvE gear, or the guy with blue mods and no augments may not fully understand what he needs to do, but when you see them in warzones week after week and see that they have a valor rating in the 50's-80's, with no improvement as the weeks pass, the question definitely comes up about whether they still don't know or just don't care to get better. So I guess the answer to your question about a baseline level of gear isn't so much that they should have an arbitrary level of gear, but a lack of indication that they are even trying to get better that would make me question if it's due to a lack of knowledge or just plain selfishness on their part.

I do also get the point about the idea of prioritizing "vanity" purchases over gear that will assist in a warzone and I'm not sure I would necessarily criticize a player for doing so. However, I know that when I was preparing for 55 WZ PvP, I rolled two additional sentinels and one marauder simply so I could learn how to play. I also scoured the forums and multiple websites, spent a significant amount of time crafting mods and gear, and only after I had my 2nd sentinel in what I considered at least "passable" gear did I finally level that sentinel to 55 and enter PvP. Even in that case, I was woefully unprepared and got absolutely slaughtered. I did no damage to my targets, got 2-3 hit every time, and was a definitely detriment to my team. Every WZ I entered, my side was playing with seven players. My effectiveness was so lacking that I might as well not even have been there. Granted, I got better, and I like to think I contribute now, but I was fully aware before I joined PvP and was even more aware afterward that I was part of a team. Yes, I get that it's a game and that we're all here to have fun, but I also considered that my lack of preparation was infringing on other players' ability to have fun.

I do definitely agree with your point about asking vs demanding, though. As you and I (and many other people) have discussed in the past, I honestly believe that the rude behavior is a direct cause of some of the poor performance we see in warzones. Most people don't respond well to loud and rude ranting about how much they suck.

If we actually tried to help people and (most importantly) didn't give up the first time someone responded poorly, I think we could make a real difference.

I wonder about that. Yes, I know there are repair bills in failing to finish a raid, but I'm sure you've noticed the disparity in reward levels for PvE and PvP. I don't do PvE raiding to any meaningful extent, so I don't know what kind of loss you'd face in wiping in a raid, but IIRC, I seem to recall that a failed raid still results in a lot of credits and XP gained, even if I fail to get a chance at an item drop. From what I recall of the few raids and FPs I've been on, I ended up getting a fairly decent chunk of "loot" and commendations of various sorts without getting any really good gear at the end. In short, I may have to spend credits to repair damage, but I still have a lot of profit to show for it.

In contrast to that, I can do an entire night of PvP matches and get jack squat worth of credits. An entire night gets about as many credits as half an hour of running dailies. True, you get WZ commendations, but if I go through 15 losses on a Tuesday night in order to get my weekly done as opposed to going through 15 wins, I'm getting virtually nothing for all that effort.

So... PvE side I get a ton of rewards, a number of commendations, but may lose out on the capstone of those rewards. I might not get the quest turn in and might not get the roll for a piece of gear which may or may not help.

PvP side I get diddly squat worth of rewards. If one or more members of my team cause my team to lose because they didn't prepare properly, I get maybe 1/3 of that diddly squat worth of rewards.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

I actually prepared my own answer, but after reading yours, I will simply just parrot what you just wrote. Great shower metaphor btw.

Once again I'll just add that the people who we don't want queuing are not the people who don't know, or who are trying. It's the people who don't care and aren't trying, even after we politely explain the situation to them. No matter how little credits you have, there is no excuse for not progressing overtime. Coming in week after week with no augments is inexcusable. They cost 110k each and can easily be obtained in a matter of a few weeks and that is if you are barely trying. Augments are not just some extra little fluff gear in PvP, they are the biggest difference between the haves and have nots. A person in all green PvE gear with augments will be better than a person in full obroan without augments.

I don't understand why this is even an argument honestly. When you play with other people, I thought it would be natural to do as much as you can to help your team out and not be a burden. Instead I see nothing but excuses and selfishness from people and complete lack of respect for your fellow players' time. I think I understand now why so many people give up trying to help bad players now.

EDIT-And just to add about the rewards and PvE penalty thing. While the repair bill is annoying, it is never that high unless you are super overgeared. You usually make a lot more money from an OP than you lose and it is very rare to lose to the first few bosses, so you do get some rewards (esp in 16 man where you get ultimate comms) even if you don't get your weekly or finish the last boss. The biggest gripe about wipes is the time wasted. Wipes that can be avoided tend to waste a lot of time due to having to regroup and travel to the destination. And to many people an hour of their time lost is more important than 50k credits for repairs.

Same thing in PvP imo. Unaugmented people who constantly cause losses are extending the amount of time it takes to get dailies, weeklies and comms overall. Once again people who don't know or are in the process of getting augments aren't the problem. It is those that do know and don't care. They are dragging their team down, forcing 7 other people to waste more time and making their experience more crappy overall. For what? A throne mount? Sounds very selfish.

Well, for what it's worth, I can actually understand why some people just don't get it. There is quite an overdose of information out there for anyone who wants to put the effort into looking, but I wonder if maybe 10% of all players actually read the forums or research things online. When you look online, too, there's a lot of disagreement on just about everything. Go into general chat and it's even worse. If you can get past all the talk about Thor, politics, and other various nonsense, you have just as good a chance of getting someone who either doesn't have a clue or just wants to mess with you.

Do PvE and it's fairly simple and straightforward; just look at the gear, compare it to what you're wearing, and as long as there's a bunch of big green numbers in your primary stats (which occasionally throws people for a loop), you know it's probably an improvement. PvP, on the other hand, is about as simple as advanced nuclear physics. Ask ten different people about bolster and you get ten different answers, not one of which is proven to be "the truth." Look at Evuo's post in the How to Become a Contender: Supplemental(Bolster, PvP Gear, and You) thread discussing how blue 45 mods appear to be the BiS mods for MH/OH damage, followed by his test information showing that the tool tip information doesn't reflect the test information, and as far as I'm concerned, all bets are off.

if pvp folks are that concerned about the lack of augs(ands slots) and stims, perhaps they should stop selling them for obscene prices and put them on the GTN with a more reasonable price.

Ok guys, he just set the bar very high, can anyone beat him?

It's not like they are free to make. You need to make 10 pieces of level 9 armor which requires 6 artifact fragments each (as well as power crystals and the crafting component). And critting while making the armors just puts an augment slot in them so you can't account for the old 2 for 1. Selling them for 60-65k is actually very reasonable and after GTN takes its cut, you make around a 7-10k profit off of each. When you consider the time it takes to make each one, 7-10k is not a lot. However, when someone actually listens in PvP ops chat and tries to learn to get better gear/augments I usually trade them to him for 40-45k (which is already a loss to me).

As for augments, if you can't afford 6-10k for the blues, you need a financial consultant because you are very dumb with your credits.

And the purples require 4 thermal regulators which you can only get by critting in slicing. The highest extra crit for slicing in this game is +2. I send andronikas out all the time and so far I don't have that many TRs to show for it. It's so rare that I actually had to buy my TRs from GTN for around 20-25k each and hope to crit when making a resolve augment.

Somebody doesn't understand things like costs versus profit.

It's on the GTN for 150k because it COSTS a bit less than that to make it. The more of an item you see on the GTN, the tighter the margins will be, because there's more competition.

When come back, read about supply/demand also. If it sells, then the price is reasonable.

There is soo much wrong with your analysis...

1. Bolstered Leveling Gear is just as good or better than pvp gear. PvP gear is not necessary at endgame...
2. You can start the endgame augment acquisition at toon level 1.
3. Credits are easy to obtain.
4. You primary endgame gearing concern should be augments and augments alone. And not just for PvP...


In other words, there are multiple ways to get armorings, mods, enh during leveling and at endgame, but there isn't an augment vendor. Hence, that SHOULD be your priority, especially if you choose not to craft anything. Not only this but augments help you clear PvE stuff faster too. So.. as I said earlier, you can clear 80k on Ilum in 20mins. How much is a kit on the GTN? 50k? You could probably clear enough credits in a 2hr dailies run for all 14. And here is a secret..
you can start this at level 50.

Now, that is the fundamental part. Lets talk abstract. It doesn't matter how much you play, or what your priorities are. Once you hit the Que button you have a responsibility to your team to do this minimal gearing aspect. I could careless about PvP gear, but when I see a full PvP set with zero augments, I cringe because its pretty obvious that person has no idea what is going on in this game.


In all its about not wanting or not caring, which is polar opposite of what being a responsible teammate is. So yeah, stop spending money on useless bullcrap until you have your toons house in order...

Just a response to the bolster thing...

I think you missed the point of the thread. Bolster does strange things, yes, but pound for pound, bolster boost most gear to pretty much the same level, which in turn, gives extremely high flexibility as to what gear you can show up in when you hit endgame..

BUT.

The one piece of gear that has zero impact on bolster mechanics is?

AUGMENTS......

Which means these are the only pieces you "really need" for endgame. So this is why I question anyone that doesn't have augments at endgame. Everything else can be bought from vendor, except for these....

i know how s&d works. my point is, the crafters set the price. If other folks cannot meet the price, then these crafters shouldnt be ************ that they NEED the products to compete. Makes them sound petty, as they just want to line their own pockets.

I get the impression that alot of people just have a couple of toons they play. I have 18, all of which are pvp-only these days. on my server, a 55-slot costs 69k+. blue 55 main-stat augs costs ~10k-25k depending on the main stat.
So doing the math:

69 x 14 (slots per char) = 966k for just the slots for one character.
966k x 18 = 17388000k for all 18 characters

now the augs. just using blue augs, as purple 55's are upwards of 100k a piece.
10k x 14 = 140k for main blue stat augs in all slots on one char
140 x 18 = 2520000k for all 18 chars

thats alot of money for pvp-only folks. Granted, no many have as many characters as me like this, but you get the point. Now, yes, being an avid pvper, i will aug up while levelling, and will enter WZs at 55 with every slot augmented with something, even low level slots/green augs if i have to. Its just expensive was the point i was trying to make. especially if you dont buy gold, pve at all, do events, or play the gtn game. i just like to kill folks.

Now stims is what aggravates me the most. Yes i have a biochem, but they are expensive to make. running about 10k apiece on gtn. That adds up as well, especially if you are trying to aug at the same time. But the frustrating part is the 4-hour timer for the price. Alot of it is sitting around on fleet waiting for a queue pop. or joining a WZ with a bunch of headless chickens that have no shot of winning. Thats wasted money. Now i tend to run stims, but not always the highest level ones. I buy what i can afford..

My rambling point here is, its expensive for pvp-only folks. I don't like doing dailies/pve/whatever. I just wanna kill folks in the limited amount of playing time i have.