Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer

Jug/Guardiand Tanking QoL changes in the near future?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Jug/Guardiand Tanking QoL changes in the near future?

trulam's Avatar

01.12.2014 , 10:22 AM | #1

Hey there boys and girls. I had a suggestion I would hope the community would take a poke at, maybe even get some official eyes on it, one would hope, but not expecting a response.

I've tanking with my PT, love it by the way, and recently came back to the Jug and gave it a try due to a few friends complaining about some of the mechanics. I myself would have to agree there is a bit of a gap here for Quality of Life in the tanking tree and had a suggestion to fix a few things.

First and prolly one of the biggest issues for Jugs is the AOE threat generation and sustainability. Where my PT just Death from Aboves one group and flamers another, agro firmly established for the start of a fight, the Jug has to leap in and hope smash hits everything, maybe push to get a second leap to anything else missed but is a lot more of a juggle. AGAIN this is only for AOE fights as I think that single target agro gathering for both tanking classes is fine as is. Could we see maybe high in the tree, right below top tear or somewhere a 1 point buy to make smash a ground target, 20m range effect? Again HIGH in the tree so we don't get some silly smash hybrids out there that now have ranged smash.

Secondly, AOE taunting. This kinda leans to Assassins as well. PTs have it easy in the fact that can target a group from afar and AOE taunt from the target. Could we see the same for Jugs? Why does it only have to be around us? Maybe another talent combo'ed with the ground target smash?

Thirdly, I wish I could pull up some parses from nightmare but HOLY GOD self healing from PTs. I recently had a parse, again I wish I had kept the link maybe someone else has it and can post, where a PT main tank had 40% of the raids heals on self, not overhealing, useful heals. THAT IS HUGE. And a change for that? one simple solution that will help is tanking stance make it so that Enraged Defense does not drop threat and maybe a 15 second reduction talent in the tree somewhere.

Im in no way saying I can see results from these suggestions but we really could use a little change here to help bring us up to par for quality of life in the tanking tree. I don't think we are hurting as bad as assassins were but we are not sitting as pretty as PTs that's for sure.

Thank you.

Rebel_Guy's Avatar

01.12.2014 , 12:37 PM | #2
No need.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

01.12.2014 , 02:48 PM | #3
AoE threat generation is definitely difficult for Juggs, but it's not as bad as it was. The threat boost on Sweeping Slash helps a lot, as does the reduced cost. Also, Saber Reflect. :-)

As for the AoE taunt, that's just one of those things that you get used to. I can think of several fights where a targeted AoE is actually harder to work with and/or weaker than a self-AoE. Mostly, this is where there are adds that spawn gradually and need to be taunted ASAP. I like to run shadow+vanguard as a tanking combo, so we have both options available to us.

Beyond that, I'd say that Juggs are extremely well balanced with powertechs. They take almost exactly the same damage on hard hitting bosses, but they have a much better set of cooldowns. In a lot of ways, a well played juggernaut can reduce damage beyond what a well played powertech can, simply due to the cooldowns. If anything, Juggs are the ones who are "sitting pretty".

Basically the only thing that Juggs can't do well is the damage debuff, which can be applied by either assassins or powertechs (or annihilation marauders), but not juggernauts. So, Juggs have the unfortunate distinction of being the only tank class which cannot be "doubled" (Jugg + Jugg is the only tanking combo which is worse than the others in terms of overall damage). Aside from that though, Juggs are fantastic tanks and really don't need any significant changes.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Luckygunslinger's Avatar

01.13.2014 , 10:32 AM | #4
Other than a better opener for threat which is easily obtainable by tying in a high threat generation to saber throw, Jugg is in a pretty solid place at the moment. Personally I would prefer Rule of Two to be passive and not only achievable when the person you're guarding takes damage but that's just preference. Jugg is scaling quite nicely and the defensive cooldowns and the way it works grow bigger and better through out the content.

As for your talk on self heals, Into the Fray heals for 2.5% every 3 seconds. That tank was sitting in a lot of bad for him to be eating up 40% of the raid heals. Off my mind I cannot think of an AOE heavy fight like that where the Vanguard/PT would heal them self so much that they are matching both healers in heals. The numbers would be huge, I'd like to see that parse if you have it because I'm sceptical.

Also, Enraged Defense can be used by tanks in situations, up to you as a tank to know which ones they are. Just a heads up though, every operation has at least 1 fight where Enraged Defense is actually better to use than to sit there taking damage.

5/5 HM Rav - Revanchist - HM ToS 5/5
Rage - Immortal - Guides - Defense - Focus

MaximusRex's Avatar

01.16.2014 , 02:16 AM | #5
I wish crushing blow chained better to nearby mobs, it seems to picky on that, and AOE tanking ranged mobs is a pita sometimes, but other than that I don't have any major PvE complaints.

leegrisham's Avatar

01.16.2014 , 10:55 AM | #6
My jug QoL wish list.
I think jugg cool downs are inline or better than the other classes..

>High threat saber throw. - Only tank without a good ranged threat gen opener (think grapple, pull)

>Movement bonus. Jugg really needs something to boost movement speed - that's not dependent on another player (think overrides and forcespeed - since jugs all ready have 2 movement, intercede and charge - i'd expect this to be not on the same level as speed and overrides but just something to increase the turtle pace of jug in a fight.)

>High damage ability that resets. Jug tanks need a resetting damage ability. Retaliation is OKAY, but something that would reset smash or scream or ravage - (think assassins shock reset, and PTs flamethrower reset. In my opinion this is needed to 1, increase dps of jug tank, increase base threat without taunts and last but not least make the roation not as boring.)

Methoxa's Avatar

01.17.2014 , 10:39 AM | #7
Aoe threat generation isnt a problem IF you hit all enemies, but neither smash nor crushing blow nor sweeping slash does it if your not positioning yourself perfectly. If you learn how to masstaunt correctly ( when the first mobs start to attack someone else) you should be able to hold aggro even in aoe situations.

The speedbuff however might be nice for kiting bosses and situationaly pretty usefull on the other hand we have leap and intervene to shorten our walkdistances. If you know how to use these talents you wont need a speedbuff.

The enraged defense suggestion would be great, i am often using it with combination with a tauntrotation or situationaly if i dont have to maintain aggro for example council the phase where these sparks hit the raid and i am to get the styrrak crystal or while Darvannis Styrrak during the spine phases or raptus during the tankchallenge. However i am not using it on cd, which is a shame because it would help the healers greatly and would make juggers more favoured tanks. Who would take a juggernaut if he could have a pt?