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Immortal Juggernaut Tanking Guide (and Sweeping Slash analysis)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Immortal Juggernaut Tanking Guide (and Sweeping Slash analysis)

paowee's Avatar


paowee
01.07.2014 , 02:28 AM | #1
A guide to Juggernaut Tank

http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/05/immortal-juggernaut/

Table of Contets:
  1. Gearing
  2. Skill Tree
  3. Taunt mechanic
  4. Threat per second
  5. Threat per activation
  6. Opener
  7. Rotation
  8. Ability Priority list
  9. Endless Rage & Ravage
  10. Enrage
  11. Scream, Retaliation and Intimidating Roar
  12. Rage Dump (THREAT)
  13. Rage Dump (DPS)
  14. Utilities
  15. Cooldowns

Sweeping Slash and Vicious Slash, which is a better Rage Dump filler?
Vicious Slash - untalented and no threat modifier, high base damage
Sweeping Slash - low base damage, talented by for damage increase by Decimate and Single Saber Mastery +threat (generated by Smash and Sweeping Slash by 30%)

Quote:
In the rage dump: threat section on Vicious Slash vs Sweeping Slash you note that Sweeping Slash came out on top... That was interesting to note and I double checked it. The expected damage / rage values for these abilities should be
Vicious Slash: (1762+2018)*(1+0.18*0.51)*0.7/2/3 = 481 and
Sweeping Slash: (1214+1392)*(1+0.18*0.51)*0.7/2/2 = 497
which means that Vicious Slash, your single-target filler attack akin to Grav Round/Charged Bolts/Disturbance/Telekinetic Throw/Double Strike/Ion Pulse has no place in the Juggernaut tank rotation. Pending review by other Juggernauts/Guardians and maybe a larger sample
I wouldn't say that it should be removed altogether. Vicious Slash still does more DPS per activation and more damage per rage cost compared to Sweeping Slash. This should become more useful later into the fight when the tank has solidified his or her threat on the boss.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Luckygunslinger's Avatar


Luckygunslinger
01.07.2014 , 07:12 AM | #2
I rarely use Sweeping slash unless it's for AOE damage and Threat gen. My single target rotation has no room for it anywhere, I have more useful things to spend my rage on: Smash, Scream, Crushing Blow and Retaliation. One prime example of when I would constantly burn through Rage with Sweeping Slash is during adds on Dread Master Calphayus.

Sweeping Slash is a good Aggro maintainer but for generation, the threat it provides will not catch up with someone who pulled off you like Crushing Blow or Backhand would. All and all it's good for AOE Damage and to maintain some threat on loose trash but it has no long term use in a pull. For fights like Tyrans or Council, I'd never use it.

Artorias
5/5 HM Rav - Revanchist - HM ToS 5/5
Rage - Immortal - Guides - Defense - Focus

paowee's Avatar


paowee
01.07.2014 , 02:13 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckygunslinger View Post
I rarely use Sweeping slash unless it's for AOE damage and Threat gen. My single target rotation has no room for it anywhere, I have more useful things to spend my rage on: Smash, Scream, Crushing Blow and Retaliation. One prime example of when I would constantly burn through Rage with Sweeping Slash is during adds on Dread Master Calphayus.

Sweeping Slash is a good Aggro maintainer but for generation, the threat it provides will not catch up with someone who pulled off you like Crushing Blow or Backhand would. All and all it's good for AOE Damage and to maintain some threat on loose trash but it has no long term use in a pull. For fights like Tyrans or Council, I'd never use it.
After your opener, the main threat rotation is: While spamming Retal;

SMASH - CB - Sunder - Scream -> you have 4 GCDs of filler before Smash comes back up again.

In those 4 GCDs Ravage and Backhand should be used if they are up and that is right. Those 3 GCDs total which leaves you with 1 GCD left. But if Ravage and Backhand are on cooldown,

SMASH - CB - Sunder - Scream -> Filler -> Filler -> Filler -> Filler which ability will you use to dump your rage, Vicious or Sweeping Slash?

According to the parses Sweeping Slash generates more threat than Vicious Slash while Vicious Slash does more DPS. Methoxa tested it here as well

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Test on dummy:

Sweeping slash : 2119 threat 887 damage
Vicious slash : 2743 threat 1371 damage
[Assault : 1771 threat 885 damage ]

Sweeping slash costs 1 rage less

Sweeping Slash : 1059 threat per rage 443 damage per rage
Vicious Slash : 914 threat per rage 457 damage per rage
[Assault : generates 2 rage]

Indeed sweeping slash generates more threat per rage, but especially at the beginning of a fight you want burst tps, vicious slash generates more burst tps when you have enough rage, if you have rage problems you should use sweeping slash instead of vicious slash. Vicious slash provides a little bit more damage but the difference is not much. Sweeping slash also gives the target the 5% miss debuff.

Thanks for the information, gonna use sweeping slash now more often single target vise
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Marb's Avatar


Marb
01.07.2014 , 05:10 PM | #4
This looks really good, I especially like the visuals with icons, very easy to understand. It looks like you put a lot of work into this. I only have 2 niggles:

I'm seeing more and more juggs take vicious retaliation but I'm not convinced, what is the reasoning behind taking it instead of warmonger?

The only other nitpick I have is you don't mention how retaliation interacts with ravage. Your openers and ability strings are set out in a way that would accommodate it and you mention using retaliation on cooldown, but I know lot of juggs don't initially consider how ravage can delay retaliation if it lights up during a channel.
Harbinger

paowee's Avatar


paowee
01.07.2014 , 08:36 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
This looks really good, I especially like the visuals with icons, very easy to understand. It looks like you put a lot of work into this. I only have 2 niggles:

I'm seeing more and more juggs take vicious retaliation but I'm not convinced, what is the reasoning behind taking it instead of warmonger?

The only other nitpick I have is you don't mention how retaliation interacts with ravage. Your openers and ability strings are set out in a way that would accommodate it and you mention using retaliation on cooldown, but I know lot of juggs don't initially consider how ravage can delay retaliation if it lights up during a channel.
Ah that's right. I'll add your input up and reference it here. Retaliation will definitely cancel Ravage and we don't want that happening.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Marb's Avatar


Marb
01.07.2014 , 11:54 PM | #6
It's more about being careful using a ravage, as obviously you wont hit retaliation to cancel ravage mid cast, but having retaliation light up during a ravage means you are wasting a retaliation.

So for example if ravage is up, but retaliation is about to come up too, it would be best to wait for retaliation and follow immediately with ravage, instead of using ravage on cd and delaying retaliation.
Harbinger

paowee's Avatar


paowee
01.08.2014 , 12:02 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
It's more about being careful using a ravage, as obviously you wont hit retaliation to cancel ravage mid cast, but having retaliation light up during a ravage means you are wasting a retaliation.

So for example if ravage is up, but retaliation is about to come up too, it would be best to wait for retaliation and follow immediately with ravage, instead of using ravage on cd and delaying retaliation.
Yeah you are ight and it's reflected in the edited Abiltiy Priority List
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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