ETA on Advanced Class change?

Here we go again... OK... let's go...
SWTOR is not WoW. Having said that, Mages, Warlock and Priests are in fact not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However a Sage and a Shadow (not Assassin ) are the SAME BASE CLASS in that they are both Jedi Counselors (just as a Shadow Priest and Balance Priest are the SAME BASE CLASS with different spells and play mechanics).

SWTOR is not WoW. Yes, Warriors and Death Knights are not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However, the Powertech and the Mercenary are both BOUNTY HUNTERS!

No class... I'll just say that again... NO CLASS can at this time, or any other time, fill any TWO rolls at the same time. They maybe able to off-heal/off-DPS/off-tank for limited time but they cannot fill any role for which they are not specifically specced. This argument is moot. To fill a role effectively, a player has to spec into the roll, have the gear to fill in that roll, the skill for it and the will to do it. So what if a Trooper can be a Tank, a Healer and a Damage Dealer? To fulfill any of those rolls the player behind the toon would have to respec into those rolls, have the gear for it, the skills for it and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the will to do it!

Since you like to refer to WoW so much, let me remind you that when class respecs were introduced in WoW this was exactly what happened: you had to relearn all the skills associated with switching from a, for exemple, Retribution Paladin to a Holy Paladin. I know, I was there when that was the reality. You know what happened? I do, because, again, I was there for it. They changed it so that you didn't have to relearn everything if you had already learned it before.

You keep calling the people who want this "lazy" and "entitled". Can you not understand that the people who really want this are anything but that. The people who want this are the ones who can see the advantages that this can bring to their groups. The ones who want this are the ones who already have 2 toons of the same base class but specced into either of the ACs, but who would prefer to have only one toon of the same base class (in many cases the second toon was powerlevelled to max level, is missing companions, has incomplete crew skills and ONLY EXISTS so that the player can field a tank/DPS/healer when his group needs it).

Seriously, get over this crusade of yours. The players who want this are the power players. The ones who min/max. The ones who raid daily. The ones who know this game in and out.

Being able to change your Advanced Class is not going to break this game. It is not going to provide anyone with an advantage. It is SIMPLY GOING TO OFFER THEM MORE FLEXIBILITY. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sage and shadow are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs. This has been backed up by the devs statements and those statements have been quoted manytimes int his thread. Those statements have NEVER been reversed nor contradicted and remain the last word from the devs regarding AC's being DIFFERENT classes. While many of the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd may wish otherwise, AC's ARE DIFFERENT classes.

The devs are the ones who make the decisions in this game, not you, nor I. I simply agree with the devs on this issue.

Sage is a different class than a shadow. One is ranged DPS/heals and the other is melee DPS/tank. One can stealth and the other cannot. One uses dual bladed light saber and one uses a single bladed light saber.


Powertech and mercenary are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs. One is a melee DPS/tank and one is a ranged DPS/heals.

Again, the devs design intent was that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, heal and DPS (AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time). This is why no AC can fill all three roles. This is one of the reasons why AC's are PERMANENT choices and why EACH AND EVERY PLAYER is advised no less than 4 times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that the choice is PERMANENT. Each and every player must also acknowledge that they KNOW this is a PERMANENT choice by clicking the confirm button in the confirmation box when the choice is made.


I was playing WoW from the beginning also, and I do remember that. Look how far down that slippery slope WoW has gone in an effort to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd.

You're proving my point. Now you're admitting that many of the "lazy, entitled, have to have to have it now and for as little effort as possible crowd" are so averse to the minimal effort to level that other class that they are getting others to help them level to avoid the minimal time and effort to even complete the story lines.


Some of the players who want to change their class may be power players, but many are not. Many simply want to change their class simply because the one they chose got nerfed, or the other one got buffed. Many simply want to level "easy mode", for example smash monkey marauder, but then want to tank at end game.

Allowing class changes may not "break" this game, but it WILL cost BW subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing how many subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing if BW stands to lose more in guaranteed, recurring monthly subs than they may make in quick, one time CM sales if they allow class changes. That is a decision that only BW can make as they are the ones with the information. So far, it seems that they have chosen to keep the guaranteed, recurring monthly income from subs. This may be the smartest thing for them to do, financially speaking. After all, they have both those who want to see class changes implemented and those that are against allowing class changes paying and playing as it stands.

So we have over 4,000 responses from the same 4 or 5 people trying to spoil everyone else's good time. Great job guys. You are truly ruining the game for everyone else with your petty little arguments.

1.) You are not accomplishing anything while playing a video game. If you are entertaining yourself while playing it then you've accomplished the most you will ever accomplish.

2.) There are no consequences in a video game. You don't add another quarter. You aren't effecting world peace. You aren't elevating you chi to another level of awareness. It's a video game.

3.) You are not, repeat NOT a Commando or a Mercenary or a Jedi Show, etc. You are a person who is sitting on their butt playing a game with a bunch of pixels. Nobody cares.

If you really want to do something meaningful or something that really matters then go learn a foreign language, or get your 1/4 mile time under 50 seconds or get your bench/squat/shrug up to 1.5 to 2.0 times your body weight. Maybe learn to cook fancy Beef Wellington that Gordon Ramsey is always going on about.

In the mean time, this is a game. A silly little video game. It should be fun. Any such additions or modifications to the game should be solely to benefit the players, the amount of entertainment they get and quality of life. I mean really.

There are many angles for this discussion, I think the most important one (and the players do not care about) is money. Will allowing AC change impact subs? I do not think someone will leave, because it is implemented, but it may impact subs as there is no reason for me to re-roll a new toon to try a merc if I have PT. This may impact how long many players spend time in the game; staying as subs.

The bottom line is there is no subs that will be generated from implementing this feature, but potentially some loss of subs if it is implemented. On the flip side, for someone like me, who has so many toons and had lvl 50 legacy for a while, I would like to be able to change AC for so many reasons. Example, merc are better dps in PvE and PTs are better dps in PvP. When I PvP I respec PT and when I PvE I respec merc.

Considering how many posts the thread has, a gold post is needed to clarify where do the devs stand.

I'm really trying to figure out what the rage is about when it comes to changing advance classes. I mean really most ppl it wouldn't affect in the least. Other then just not letting people have what they want I really don't get the reasons why so many hate the idea.

Played SWG and in the nge you could respec into whatever of the 9 classes you wanted at anytime so long as you had the cash. What happen total chaos, not really it gave my guild the ability to have ppl willing to change their class do just that so we could do endgame instances when we couldn't get a healer or a tank.

Played wow and did the dual spec as a Protection Pally and a holy pally. even respeced a few times my holy over to ret to dps. I geared all three specs out and had one set on me and other set in the change slots option and another in my bank or inventory. Did it cause alot of problems when it went thru. Not in my guild. Hell I was off tank and the guild I was in geared me and gave me the gold to dual spec. Never played Holy Paladin and did fine once I had the right gear. Didn't need to level up 1-70 to figure out how to do it cause the moves all say what they do and there are more sites then most would ever even look at with guides for every spec and how to spec and rotation to use along with where to get starter gear all the way up thru progression to the top tier gear for that spec.

So sorry I don't think you need to level a character to know how to play it. Aslong as you can read and have alittle intelligence you will be ok. Personally I know alot of players that leveled from 1 to max level on games and never learned how to play a role they picked in all those levels and wouldn't ever learn no matter how hard they try. Some only have the mentality or mind set to play one role no matter what game it is and alot just do dps cause well its alot easier to learn how to play that and you don't usually get yelled out when everyone gets wiped.

Can it be used by lazy ppl well yea, just like it can be used by those that would use it to help their friends or guild out by changing specs to fill a role that needed. Will it cause some bad probably, but also good will come of it. Guess what some people will abuse it and exploit it for flavor of the month or to get out of a spec that was good but got nerfed to crap. Some won't ever touch a system if it is put in. Most will use it for purposes that not only keep them playing but make it easier on others trying to play this game.

Honestly the one thing that makes me both love and hate MMO's are they are ever changing and all have it in the eula they can change the whole game at any time in anyway they want whenever they want to. They are ever evolving. What is said today and is set in stone can easily be written away tomorrow. It is all up to the devs as always and they will be the ones to judge which is more profitable way to go. Once they decide which will give them more cash they will head in that direction. So whichever side your on in this debate just remember its not what the players want but what they are willing to spend that will make their mind. up for them.

You can change your spec in WoW. You can go from holy paladin heals to retribution paladin DPS. You cannot change your class and go from holy paladin heals to fury warrior DPS, though.

You can change your spec in this game. You can go from sorcerer heals to sorcerer DPS for no cost if you are subscriber. You cannot, however, change your class and go from sorcerer heals to assassin tank.

As for money, allowing class changes may cause a quick burst of one time income from those that wish to change their class, but there ARE plenty of people who feel strongly enough about not allowing class changes, that it WILL cost them subs. How many subs, only BW can know. We do know there are enough people who are against class changes that there was an overwhelming majority AGAINST allowing class changes in the polls that BW took regarding AC changing.

This is why each and ever y player is advised at least 4 separate times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that their choice of AC is PERMANENT. This is why each and every player has to acknowledge that they KNOW they are making a PERMANENT choice and that the choice they are making is the one they want to make by clicking the confirm box int he confirmation window. This is why we now have a separate box for each of the AC's and we can see the trees for each of the AC's prior to selecting an AC.

Blah blah blah blah blah. Who cares? It's a game. Not even a game that you play outside and burn calories. It's a silly video game. Nobody cares. Let me repeat that again. Nobody... and I mean NOBODY cares. They will add this feature when the figure out a way to make money from it. Period.

You are right. The only thing they care about is making money. Just a matter of time before we start seeing faction changes and sex changes up for sale in CM.

I agree with you on this. It is their decision. They will change it so that you can change your AC or they won't.
Personally, I believe that they will at some point. Probably in a year or two's time. Why? Because the game will have matured to a point where it will make sense to do so. By then probably 2 more expansions will have come out. By then the level cap will probably be 70 (or more, or less). There may even be a Chapter 4 for the class stories. Believe it or not, even the Developers play this game. When this becomes something THEY want it will happen.

Good for you. I also agree with their right to not change this at this time. Hopefully you will still be in agreement with their right to develop this game they way they want to if they ever change this.

I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. You mention that the only thing in common is their story. I believe they have more in common than that. I also believe that their stories are what define them and not the way their Advanced Classes play.

See the above comment.

You do realize that even if this ever changes and people can change their Advanced Class only the Aim and Willpower classes will be in a position to be able to Tank/DPS/Heal by changing their AC, don't you? The Strength and Cunning classes will only ever be able to fill 2 of those rolls.
Again, this will change or it won't at the Developer's discretion. I just don't think that it won't change because of this reason. The reasoning behind it (the " NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, heal and DPS (AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time)") just won't make sense anymore at some point.

What are you talking about? If you were there, you must have realized that the ability to "field respec" without having to teleport back to the capital city and then be summoned back was the best thing that ever happened to raiding guilds! The "lazy", the "entitled" never took advantage of it. Saying that this caused a slide down a slippery slope is just silly. Have you looked at the subscription numbers of WoW lately? It is still the big dog out there...

HAHA... you think Power Levelling means that players had others help them? No mate, it just means that the player took the most efficient route in levelling to get to max level. They used XP Boosts, they used Rested XP, they did Space Missions, Daily quests, PvP, Flashpoints, they bought the Legacy unlocks to increase the XP they gained from these activities. That means they are "lazy"? That they are "entitled"? This is being averse to "minimal effort"? Geez dude... think before you write...

Sure, some will use it to switch to the "flavor of the month". Or to switch from being in melee range to being at 30m range. How will that be bad? So what if they level as a "smash monkey marauder" and then switch to the Juggernaut AC so they tank? If they have the skill to do it, how will that be bad?

How will this cost subscriptions? Seriously, that argument against allowing AC changes makes no sense. How many players are currently considering no longer playing (or paying a subscription) because they want to try another AC but don't want to level through the same story content of the class? I don't know and neither to do you. I personally do believe though that allowing people to have this flexibility will keep players playing for longer because it will allow them change the way they play without having to do something they don't want to do.

In summary, this will happen or it won't. The decision will be the Developer's decision. I just think your arguments against this happening are nonsensical and illogical.

That's the real tragedy of SWTOR. BioWare built an awesome game and then EA totally and utterly ruined its chances of success with the way they implemented the Cartel Market.

Instead of focusing on incentives to grow their subscriber base which would mean long term success they decided to do almost nothing but sell gambling packs to children to make quick cash. It sucks really because they would make so much more money in the long run by trying to increase subs. They would've had a much better game, a better community, and a massive revenue generator.

This is literally one tiny step above a Ponzi scheme.