Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Event currency

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
12.17.2013 , 08:28 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Wait, what? So essentially your point is "Oh, um... I guess you found it out, I'll have to ask the dev team if they want to change it"?

I mean, you literally just completely lied. It's not a tech limitation. It has never been a tech limitation. We've known since the first gree event that the reason they're bind on pickup is because you didn't want the people with more 50s, you know, those people who put more time into your game, to have an advantage over those who didn't care or didn't support the game quite as much.

I'm sorry, but this is a bit over the top. If the community manager is going to straight-up lie about something we've known the contrary answer to for over a year, who can we trust?
L2RemoveTinfoilFromHat

Tbh, this was one of the most candid answers I've seen BW give, and it's the sort of tech info that I find interesting. Unfortunately, this is why we (I) can't have good things, since there are always people that don't understand or don't want to understand why things work the way do, and not the way they want.

To recap: Eric said that when they developed the Gree event, they had three options for currency:
1) BoP Stackable
2) BoL non-Stackable
3) No-Bind, Stackable

What he didn't say, but that should have been obvious, was that there really was a fourth option -- spend additional development time creating a BoL Stackable item (event currency) type.

Eric said (and the earlier quote cited supports him saying) that BW wanted the rewards to be tied to character earning the rewards, so BW eliminated option (3).

Since the rewards are BoL, it doesn't appear that BW minded that the *legacy* of the earning character shared in the rewards. However, if BW had chosen (2), please don't pretend that a lot of people wouldn't have complained "what? nonstackable?" Given the price structure, effort needed to obtain the currency, and likelihood that many people would not have spent (or been able to spend) all of the currency during the initial run of the event, it's 'very likely" that many people would have ended using lots of cargo/inventory space to store currency. So, (2) really would have been an annoying option.

So, they chose (1) since it fit their goals and didn't require additional code changes.

The Cartel Certificates are just a red herring -- from what Eric said (and as a programmer, I can easily visualize this), Cartel Certificate code is separate from the Gree currency code. Does it (did it) have to be this way? No, but it's in no way unlikely.

tl;dr: Eric's explanation is consistent with what BW said in the past, and with how large programming projects work.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

Nickious's Avatar


Nickious
12.17.2013 , 11:03 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Good question! Cartel Market Certificates actually break our normal rules that our items need to follow in order to be considered "valid" by development tools --they're a special exception. Certainly there is a lot of desire to for this change to happen based on the feedback in this thread, I will make sure the dev team is made aware of it. Keep in mind that although this is a possible change, it would not be a simple change to make and it can be a risky change since the item is already live!

Hope that makes sense!

-eric
I do hope this is taken into a great deal of consideration for the next gree event. Thanks for the reply.

Margoth's Avatar


Margoth
12.18.2013 , 06:13 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Wait, what? So essentially your point is "Oh, um... I guess you found it out, I'll have to ask the dev team if they want to change it"?

I mean, you literally just completely lied. It's not a tech limitation. It has never been a tech limitation. We've known since the first gree event that the reason they're bind on pickup is because you didn't want the people with more 50s, you know, those people who put more time into your game, to have an advantage over those who didn't care or didn't support the game quite as much.

I'm sorry, but this is a bit over the top. If the community manager is going to straight-up lie about something we've known the contrary answer to for over a year, who can we trust?
Lighten up Francis...

Seriously there is a big difference between lying and having misinformation or inarticulately providing the right information. Lying requires that he knew the correct answer and chose to give an incorrect one. Do you really believe that is the case? I'd be willing to bet that was the information given to him by a developer. I'd even bet the developer thought that was the truth. Pre-Cartel market it probably was the truth.

I believe it has been posted before that the Cartel Market has a separate dev team from the main game. So it is entirely possible this was implemented by that team and the main game team didn't think about it.

Note that there are many differences between cartel market items and other items, collections and the bound for a time then tradeable being just a few of them.

So relax. They are taking our feedback. Something may change, or it may not. We'll wait and see. However, they are listening and hopefully we'll see a change.

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.18.2013 , 09:18 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Wait, what? So essentially your point is "Oh, um... I guess you found it out, I'll have to ask the dev team if they want to change it"?

I mean, you literally just completely lied. It's not a tech limitation. It has never been a tech limitation. We've known since the first gree event that the reason they're bind on pickup is because you didn't want the people with more 50s, you know, those people who put more time into your game, to have an advantage over those who didn't care or didn't support the game quite as much.

I'm sorry, but this is a bit over the top. If the community manager is going to straight-up lie about something we've known the contrary answer to for over a year, who can we trust?
This is why they never want to post here or tell us anything. You are whats wrong with the community.
Mikal'B, Battlemaster and Fleet Commodore of the Republic.
<Contraband Inc> 10/10 NiM, 4/4 NiM, NMP, 7/12 NiM, HM GF, 4/5 NiM
Jedi Covenant

DimmuJanKaarl's Avatar


DimmuJanKaarl
12.18.2013 , 09:30 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
...people with more 50s, you know, those people who put more time into your game, to have an advantage over those who didn't care or didn't support the game quite as much.
ok I'm pretty sure there are players who fall between the two extremes you list; i.e., if a player only has one 50+ toon you are inferring that they don't like or support the game as much as those with multiple 50+ toons.

also, while I agree -- at least in part -- with the heart of your post, calling the guy who is our link to the devs a liar is bit harsh. would you rather he said nothing at all? I personally think we as a community are kept in the dark almost to an extreme, so I'd really rather not say or do anything that might further dissuade any of them from giving us more information.
**Von-Gorgoroth Legacy** [[Jedi Covenant]] LIVING LEGEND ||MASTER CRAFTSMAN|| //Founder// ::
Dimmu'jan-kaarl 55 Sentinel Jezethra 55 Gunslinger Gel'amina 55 Sage Lytherila 55 Vanguard
Melitina 55 Sniper Karintha 55 Sorcerer ma 55 Powertech

Glower's Avatar


Glower
12.18.2013 , 11:07 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
This is why they never want to post here or tell us anything. You are whats wrong with the community.
Oh please... Poor developers and CM team(s), punished for almost two years.
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "Theyd love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

Count_Mario's Avatar


Count_Mario
12.18.2013 , 11:37 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Nickious View Post
I do hope this is taken into a great deal of consideration for the next gree event. Thanks for the reply.
I hope they consider this for the Rakghoul Event too.

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
12.18.2013 , 12:00 PM | #58
I love how all the BW drones simply disagree with any negative comment. Maybe you should actually read what I said, instead just disagreeing because Bioware can do no wrong.

He said it was a tech limitation, that it wasn't possible, *after* it had already been done. Only when someone pointed it out did he conceed that it wasn't really a limitation, it was just a developer decision that was likely to be controversial. So he just tried to make everyone happy by telling them that it was the best of two other, worse, options.

Unfortunately the players who've been here long enough remember specifically the argument given for the way Grey Helix Component work, which is that they were designed so each player would have the same, so those with more 50s couldn't have an advantage over those with less.

So no, I don't believe it was a mistake. Do you really think Eric thinks it's a tech limitation? He's not a dev, so he wouldn't know... On the contrary he has multiple characters in the game and I'm going to bet that he probably has bought cartel packs... Not only that, he was probably the one who told us of the Cartel Market Certificate change in the first place. Do you really think he thought it was a tech limitation? Yeah, sorry, I'm not buying that.

But let's say that he did. Let's say, for whatever reason, that he was fully convinced it was a tech limitation. There are two possible reasons for this. One, it was told to him by the devs, or two, the devs were busy and he didn't bother them, so he decided to make a guess, despite of course the yellow text which told us of the Certificate change in the first place...

So let's say he didn't make a guess, because if he did, it probably wouldn't have ended the way it did. If in fact he was told by the devs, that could mean a few things. One, the devs made a dumb decision and wanted to cover it up. Two, the devs didn't even know of the Cartel Certificates, which probably means someone was fired rather recently. Three, someone else wrote the code for the Cartel Certificates and the current devs (whichever devs are related to this) don't even know how to take that code and apply it to the grey helix components.

Excluding a guess by Eric (which of course wouldn't have claimed it a tech limitation in the first place with his multiple toons and the possibility that he was the one who told us of the change to begin with), the only reasons this could have happened were either incompetence or falsity.

I think I speak on behalf of everyone, including those who choose to skim my posts rather than read them (and in fact this paragraph is probably the only thing half of them are reading) when I say that no one wants a dev team, community team, or any team that is guilty of falsehood or incompetence.
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
30/30 Dread Fortress PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

DimmuJanKaarl's Avatar


DimmuJanKaarl
12.18.2013 , 12:08 PM | #59
I just hope I can use the stack of rak dna I've had sitting in my cargo hold for 18 months
**Von-Gorgoroth Legacy** [[Jedi Covenant]] LIVING LEGEND ||MASTER CRAFTSMAN|| //Founder// ::
Dimmu'jan-kaarl 55 Sentinel Jezethra 55 Gunslinger Gel'amina 55 Sage Lytherila 55 Vanguard
Melitina 55 Sniper Karintha 55 Sorcerer ma 55 Powertech

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
12.18.2013 , 03:34 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
I love how all the BW drones simply disagree with any negative comment. Maybe you should actually read what I said, instead just disagreeing because Bioware can do no wrong.

[snip]

I think I speak on behalf of everyone, including those who choose to skim my posts rather than read them (and in fact this paragraph is probably the only thing half of them are reading) when I say that no one wants a dev team, community team, or any team that is guilty of falsehood or incompetence.
1) I'm a Biodrone? Not sure that word means what you think it does, if that's the case. Unless you think it means, "somebody that doesn't think *everything* BW does is a sign of intentional deceit or incompetence", but that doesn't seem to be what you mean.

2) You don't speak for me. Ever. You may occasionally say things with which I don't disagree, but please do not mistake correlation with causation.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!