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@Georg Zoeller: lets talk about the Warrior, and why you dont want us to fight elites

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
@Georg Zoeller: lets talk about the Warrior, and why you dont want us to fight elites
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

deserttfoxx's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 01:35 AM | #1
I direct this to Mr. Zoeller because i understand you designed the combat system, so i will assume you have an idea about what i am talking about.

But in case you dont i am referring to the fact that we have a lot of skills that simply do not work, or only work at half effectiveness. We start with smash, awesome aoe, balanced cooldown, Good for killing trash, its secondary effect of a stun doesnt work at all on mobs above weak. Not reduced duration which would be logical, but doesnt work at all.

On to force scream, same deal, no reduced duration, reduced effectiveness, no stun at all, fine, i accepted all that.

Then we get to pommel strike and savage kick, 2 skills, for the life of my, i dont understand the design philosopher of. These skills do an absurd amount of damage, If the target is incapacitated, immobilized, or slowed. They are not off the global cooldown so they are incredibly tricky to time, one of them has a RIDICULOUS cooldown (45 seconds) and neither of them work on any mob above strong.

Wait.. what?

First i have to line up the perfect stun, one that lasts longer then 1.5 seconds, leaves only backhand, force choke if you specced into it and force charge if you specced into it. But on top of that they have to be less then elite?

Dont get me wrong, these skills are amazing for killing normal mobs... but then again, so is my charge, smash, force scream, sweeping strkes combo that usually insta kills most normal mobs.

All of these skills are subpar in pvp, with the exception of force scream if you speced into it, which becomes your staple survivability skill.

So i ask Mr. Zoeller, what is the design philosophy behind these 2 skills, and why do you think we would want to use them?
"Soon they will know my name, recognize my face, and understand what it means to be in the presence of true power." - Imitatio Dei Captain Sakari Foxx , Sith Juggernaut (Level 50)

Nmaharg's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 02:39 AM | #2
They kill normal mobs really fast. Thats why we use them. Seeing how lebering up 90% of teh mobs you'll be killing are normal they are pretty useful.

Fearer's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 03:11 AM | #3

these skills are crap.

Minnesotan's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 03:14 AM | #4
/signed - from my Guardian.

Liberate's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 03:24 AM | #5
Oh how I want to pommel strike in pvp.

Does any other class get abilities they can't use in pvp? My immortal jug only gets the top of the charts thanks to my leet guard skills.

cbmenasco's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 03:27 AM | #6
The Bounty hunter is in the same boat with shoulder slam I believe.

Lakshri's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 03:29 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberate View Post
Oh how I want to pommel strike in pvp.

Does any other class get abilities they can't use in pvp? My immortal jug only gets the top of the charts thanks to my leet guard skills.
I think every tank got guard? not sure about it ... and other tanks do some dmg not only wave with lightsaber in front of enemies and hitting less than normal mobs ...

Chocobar's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 04:15 AM | #8

JK/SW back to the drawing board.

Aethyriel's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 06:27 AM | #9
You gotta give BW some time here... they were never good at balancing anything at all, remember Arcane Warriors in DA:O soloing with autoattack through hardcore or whatever? Soldierclass in ME with 90% immunity while the Adepts skills didn't work at all as long as the target had shields/armor/barriers? I could go on and on and point out thousands of balancing issues in any of their games, but I guess I don't need to, most probably know.

Right now they have the exact same approach to class design as Blizz had it back on release with WoW (remember Paladins twohitting critters etc/onehitting worldbosses). They think of a ability, find it cool or fun and just give it to someone without considering the impact and not taking a look at other classes/speccs and their counterpart. Like every range class in the game, sometimes meleeclasses all have pushbacks etc which is just one big pain in the *** for a pure meleeclass with only 1 ability on a 12/9 sec cd to get close again.

They have so many knockbacks that just frustrate the living sith out of people being kicked of platforms etc... they just don't think, same with those skills, completely situational, no real bonus using them/building up to them, even dependant on enemytype, but the types you can hit with it aren't worth using the skill on.

There are so many design flaws an experienced mmo player finds without searching that it is quite worrying. The talent trees alone are bad design, too few choices, no real choices at that, 31 point must have skills for the spec to work etc... should've taken a very good look at Rifts Soultree system, best thing I've ever seen, almost every single dmg spec is within 5% of each other and if that changes, they fix it within 1-2 weeks max.

They also failed at scaling mobdmg to average marauder mitigation skills, it's insane that you lose 20% life just charging into a group of enemies and it's basically a race who kills who first, so little control, absolutely unnecessary tactis you have to abuse like letting your comp draw aggro, than charge, tap through 2-3 enemies interrupting and stunning them, you can't even use your passive heal as annhilator properly, because bleeds take way too long to be applied, with the other two steps you don't even have that luxury and still you get hit for about 800 dmg by some random "strong" mob at lv 40.

Further they designed 95% of all grps to be spread out ranged dmg dealers, so further dmg inc for pure melee while our cleave ability kills very weak enemies, but nothing else.
Don't get me wrong though, I like the class, but it is a big difference between playing solo (very hectic, sometimes frustrating when some BH passes you by and just ***** two elitemobs with no problem at all while you gotta use your short cds to survive the strong mob) and playing in a grp with a tank and/or healer where you don't have to worry and can unleash all your skills and do very nice dps.

But, as I said, they need to fix soloplay, increasing our parry chance would be an idea (making us a light fighting type, dodging/counterattacking... acrobatic), give us a lifeleech ability instead of heals on dotcrtis (srsly that's just too random), give us a little control over ranged grps, how about some force pulling action maybe, possibly a short term retaliatelike ability sending ranged attacks back to the attacker (we've all seen it in the movies, just block it in PVP), get rid of savage kick and all crap like that filling your bars with random stuff you use once every blue moon if you feel like seeing a "big" number on the screen, reevaluate rage cost in order to ensure a smoother rotation or prioritylist (would be better) and do not have incredibly stupid randomprocc-bases abilites.

Take a look at the talenttrees again and make them more fun to specc into, having your dot dmg increased by an amazing 6% (!) over 3 levels from 36-39 is not fun, really not, no excitement there and many talents work that way. Marauder is a very cool and fun class to play, or better said.. it could be, but these flaws need to be dealt with, maybe other classes except BH have problems too, I don't know, only played my marauder so far and a friends BH and a lot of people surely won't have the patience to sit around and wait for balance for 1-2 years when there are too perfectly balanced PVE games out there with lots of content.

PS: Vote for Savage kick to work as our interrupt, it's a shame an animation like that is used for something so completey useless.
PPS: Ranted more than intended, but I really wonder if they are even aware of how far away from being finished the classes are only for the leveling process which ends in a few days for a great number of people...I really wonder.

MrDevilHawk's Avatar

12.24.2011 , 06:44 AM | #10
Some good stuff from the OP here. However I do agree that we need to give BW a bit of time. I have been around MMO's for over 10 yrs now, seen quite a few launches. Class balance is very tricky, and until we get a few months in game and get some valid feedback going on, it is nearly impossible to get any semblance of class balance. It has taken Blizzard years to get even close, and they still get tons of complaints.

As a tank class, we should be able to definitely stand in the way of elites and stay alive for quite so time, but it shouldn't be easy to burst them down.

And I know you are thinking we need a buff, but in actuality, some of the other classes may need to be toned down a bit. Right now leveling is way to fast and the difficulty needs to be turned up a bit imo.