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Days of Sandbox games are at an end?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Days of Sandbox games are at an end?

GalacticKegger's Avatar


GalacticKegger
12.16.2013 , 01:59 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by OddballEasyEight View Post
Well, the days of AAA sandbox MMO games are probably over.
But there will be smaller titles, and who knows, maby they'll come back into fashion again some day?

But for now, just accept that if you want a sandbox MMO, you'll have to go off the mainstream...


As for Sandbox Games in general?
Well, GTA V is a sandbox game, and that sold incredible amounts of copies, so I don't think its at an end in general... just for the MMO's.
Maybe not MMOs in general because RTS world builders make good sandbox MMOs. But sandboxing story-based MMORPGs, except as a peripheral minigame, won't happen until somebody invents a way for millions of players' actions to be hard coded and shared with the other millions of players in real time as part of an organic, constantly evolving and omnipresent storyline. Won't happen. At least not in our lifetimes.
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Etheric's Avatar


Etheric
12.16.2013 , 07:19 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
You're talking about a hardcore sandbox, and you're right, those will never ever work with the masses. Which is what I am afraid the repopulation is going to end up being if you want open world housing/cities.

It'll take a combination of both themepark, and sandbox to work in the future.

Few here want to hear this, but what SWG was doing in the last 2 years of the game was a very well made hybrid that had more things to do than any game before, or since. If you got tired of doing one thing, there were hundreds of other things to choose from to do. I never ran out of things to do. One day I might craft, the next I might do theme park stuff, then next I might gather materials to clone a combat pet, or do space, or heroics, or farm deathwatch bunker, do GCW stuff (which I loved dearly), or even scavenge for krayt pearls. I always had something to do that was interesting to me on any given day.

It might be strange to some, but I once spent 2 weeks doing nothing but going from city to city, and exploring as many open player houses as I could. There were too many amazing decoration jobs to list, and some of the player shops had decorations that blew me away. I never came close to seeing them all though.
What aspect of the open world houses/cities, in The Repopulation worries you ? I too have concerns although mine are in regards to what will be sold in their store. The game is going to be heavy PvP and they plan on selling skill boosts and the balancing act between those who buy them and those who don't worries me a little bit.

and no i don't find what you did strange at all, maybe i'm strange too as i did everything in your list. I spent a week+ doing nothg but exploring Dathomir, every nook and cranny, every cave. But to me thats the beauty of sandbox i can choose to join into group activities or choose to go my own route and do my own thing and it all just depended on my mood at the time.

Zorvan's Avatar


Zorvan
12.16.2013 , 07:29 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by GalacticKegger View Post
Maybe not MMOs in general because RTS world builders make good sandbox MMOs. But sandboxing story-based MMORPGs, except as a peripheral minigame, won't happen until somebody invents a way for millions of players' actions to be hard coded and shared with the other millions of players in real time as part of an organic, constantly evolving and omnipresent storyline. Won't happen. At least not in our lifetimes.
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Rthen's Avatar


Rthen
12.16.2013 , 07:43 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
Sure seems that way to me. I had High hopes STO was going to be Sandbox, especially how Jack Emmert was talking about it and beefing the game up. I had high hopes AoC was going to be Sandbox, but was sadly disappointed....although, it did at least try to give the illusion that it was Sandbox, it was still noticeable to me that it was not. And last, I had high hope SWTOR was going to be Sandbox...again, a no go.

So are the Days of Sandbox games over? I sure hope not, it was the Sandbox aspect of SWG that got me hooked on MMOs to start with.
Considering that EQNext will be "sandbox" I really don't think the days of these games are at and end. In fact I think that many publishers, like EA, will use the sandbox to get the customer to make their own content and then eliminate most of the need for a development shop and thus save money.

Sadly most of the "Sandbox" games will end up with subpar content and little if any decent story line. If there is one thing that SWTOR got right it was the class stories. I don't believe you could see that type of immersion from player created content. It would be a hot mess.
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Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
12.16.2013 , 08:25 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Zorvan View Post
GTA is more along what I was talking about earlier in the thread. It's a sandpark, not a sandbox. That's why it's massively successful, it caters to people on both sides of the spectrum.

/snip
I guess the word Sandpark is probably the best. However, we "could" call pretty much any game with side activities a sandpark, even SWTOR. You can run side missions, you can just play PvP (ground or space), you can sit all day on fleet and play GTN, you can travel around, etc. And you also has the main "campaign" that progresses you through the main story (which is not required, as, to my knowledge, you can visit planets at any time you want to)

I am not trying to start a fight, I am just saying that most people probably do not know what they want when they scream for sandbox features.
To me, sandbox games are, as I stated before, games like Spore and Minecraft, where you actually build the stuff you then use by using ingame tools.
Games like GTA, Farcry, Mafia etc. are, again, at least to me, open world games, not sandbox games.
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ghoul_drool's Avatar


ghoul_drool
12.16.2013 , 08:42 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
I am not trying to start a fight, I am just saying that most people probably do not know what they want when they scream for sandbox features.
To me, sandbox games are, as I stated before, games like Spore and Minecraft, where you actually build the stuff you then use by using ingame tools.
Games like GTA, Farcry, Mafia etc. are, again, at least to me, open world games, not sandbox games.
THis is not a particular bad thing - this is my first ever MMO. I've played it for a year now, and before that tremendously enjoyed Dragon Age, Mass Effect and before that Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR. What I don't understand is what a sandbox offers, in terms of entertainment, to a themepark. Because when I read about it, sandbox comes across as a huge map, where basically no or minimal quests are available, and where players are basically forced to create their own content. So do things like huge bosses spawn randomly? Does treasure spawn randomly? How about gathering materials to sell? How does that work?

So what would work to make SWTOR as we know it more sandbox-like? JUST open world PVP? There's gotta be more to it than that, right?

ImmortalLowlife's Avatar


ImmortalLowlife
12.16.2013 , 09:33 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by ghoul_drool View Post
THis is not a particular bad thing - this is my first ever MMO. I've played it for a year now, and before that tremendously enjoyed Dragon Age, Mass Effect and before that Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR. What I don't understand is what a sandbox offers, in terms of entertainment, to a themepark. Because when I read about it, sandbox comes across as a huge map, where basically no or minimal quests are available, and where players are basically forced to create their own content. So do things like huge bosses spawn randomly? Does treasure spawn randomly? How about gathering materials to sell? How does that work?

So what would work to make SWTOR as we know it more sandbox-like? JUST open world PVP? There's gotta be more to it than that, right?
In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play. So along with open world PvP, they'd have to add the option for user generated content. Think "GTA Online". This is my first MMO so I wouldn't know what a sandbox MMO would be like. But there are plenty of sandbox console games.
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Laurreth's Avatar


Laurreth
12.16.2013 , 09:42 AM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
So are the Days of Sandbox games over?
Oh how I ever hope so.
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Beltane's Avatar


Beltane
12.16.2013 , 10:45 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
Few here want to hear this, but what SWG was doing in the last 2 years of the game was a very well made hybrid that had more things to do than any game before, or since. If you got tired of doing one thing, there were hundreds of other things to choose from to do. I never ran out of things to do. One day I might craft, the next I might do theme park stuff, then next I might gather materials to clone a combat pet, or do space, or heroics, or farm deathwatch bunker, do GCW stuff (which I loved dearly), or even scavenge for krayt pearls. I always had something to do that was interesting to me on any given day.

It might be strange to some, but I once spent 2 weeks doing nothing but going from city to city, and exploring as many open player houses as I could. There were too many amazing decoration jobs to list, and some of the player shops had decorations that blew me away. I never came close to seeing them all though.
I agree with this 100%.

What I find confusing about SWG is that the majority of people who mention playing it quit when the NGE hit. With me... I had zero interest in it until the NGE and played from the launch of it til the close of the game. It was TOO open and grindy before (I can't get into the emulators of pre-CU at all) but by the time the last few years of the game rolled around there was a fantastic combination of sandbox and themepark.

So, as much as I miss NGE SWG, I doubt we will ever see another AAA pure sandbox and that's really alright with me. Sandbox elements are starting to be added to more and more themeparks though. I am going to keep citing Rift for this. The game is super themepark, yet you can also change the environment for other people in different zones and the housing system is incredible.

My #1 complaint with TOR is still that its more themeparky than WoW, the king of themeparks. What bugs me most are the closed maps. It's impossible to avoid groups of mobs in the majority of them, and they are literally tubes meant to funnel you from one place to the next with no room for exploration unless you want to fight swarm after swarm of static enemies. The utter lack of day/night or weather makes things boring too. I just wish the world we play in felt a little more alive, that's all.
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Infernixx's Avatar


Infernixx
12.16.2013 , 10:50 AM | #90
sandbox lol

People are free to go play whatever games that they want, but I sure wish they'd stop getting angry that this themepark game isn't a sandbox game.

You don't see me wandering into sandbox games and ranting about how there's no themepark features in them.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Infernixx nailed it. This is correct.
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