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Days of Sandbox games are at an end?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Days of Sandbox games are at an end?

Etheric's Avatar


Etheric
12.15.2013 , 08:12 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
One reviewer described EVE best as an MMO that made deep-space exploration into a boring mess of spreadsheets and that EVE players are to nerds what nerds are to normal people.

Find a better example.
What are normal people and who defines the ability to be normal ? I ask becouse i have friends who play consol games and they find my liking of MMO's to be abnormal, does liking MMO's make me abnormal ? Seems to me we live on a big world with alot of dissimilar views and the polling on what is and is not normal isn't in yet.

If i wanted to use SWTOR as an example of a Themepark MMO in a conversation should i not do that as several reviews i read after launch described it as a Single player game with multiplayer co-op, or becouse alot of people at launch didn't believe SWTOR was worth paying for ? I'd say no SWTOR is a valid example of a Themepark game, just as valid as AoC, WoW, or Rift.

Infernixx's Avatar


Infernixx
12.15.2013 , 08:12 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by MarvelZombie View Post
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Everquest Next/Landmark. SOE-hate aside, it looks a solid AAA attempt at a true sandbox MMO. Check out the dev diaries...I gotta say, it looks like it has potential. And if it fails, we may not ever see another big budget sandbox MMO for a long, long time.
if it fails? If?

lol
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Infernixx nailed it. This is correct.
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
There is no excuse for any single use item to ever cost more than a month's subscription. Anyone who pays $10 or $20 for a single use item is hastening the death of TOR and feeding the rise of TOR:The Cash Shop Menace.

Blackholeskipper's Avatar


Blackholeskipper
12.15.2013 , 08:24 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
One reviewer described EVE best as an MMO that made deep-space exploration into a boring mess of spreadsheets and that EVE players are to nerds what nerds are to normal people.

Find a better example.
Woah woah woah dude, one reviewer said so so suddenly it's not a valid example? How many reviewers have written **** about your beloved swtor? I mean come on, at least be fair here. Yea, it's pretty hardcore but no need to bash the game like that.
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
if it fails? If?

lol
See, now it's alright to insult other games but god forbid anyone says anything about swtor!

Suzina's Avatar


Suzina
12.15.2013 , 08:26 PM | #74
EVE, EQN, EQNLandmark, Second Life, all sandboxes.


And really, if you take the time to search STO's player created missions and find the good ones, you'll find that's a sandbox too, albiet burried under piles of player generated farm-missions.
Member of Bane Fleet

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.15.2013 , 11:07 PM | #75
There'll always be sandbox games- but they'll always be what they've always been- an extreme niche.

Most people don't find putting dozens of hours of work into building something, only to log for the night and find it's been scrapped while you were sleeping- and with mmos that's what happens. Especially since the average player is casual these days and may never see the fruit of their labour.

It'll still be there as a niche though.

Hambunctious's Avatar


Hambunctious
12.15.2013 , 11:33 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
There'll always be sandbox games- but they'll always be what they've always been- an extreme niche.

Most people don't find putting dozens of hours of work into building something, only to log for the night and find it's been scrapped while you were sleeping- and with mmos that's what happens. Especially since the average player is casual these days and may never see the fruit of their labour.

It'll still be there as a niche though.
You're talking about a hardcore sandbox, and you're right, those will never ever work with the masses. Which is what I am afraid the repopulation is going to end up being if you want open world housing/cities.

It'll take a combination of both themepark, and sandbox to work in the future.

Few here want to hear this, but what SWG was doing in the last 2 years of the game was a very well made hybrid that had more things to do than any game before, or since. If you got tired of doing one thing, there were hundreds of other things to choose from to do. I never ran out of things to do. One day I might craft, the next I might do theme park stuff, then next I might gather materials to clone a combat pet, or do space, or heroics, or farm deathwatch bunker, do GCW stuff (which I loved dearly), or even scavenge for krayt pearls. I always had something to do that was interesting to me on any given day.

It might be strange to some, but I once spent 2 weeks doing nothing but going from city to city, and exploring as many open player houses as I could. There were too many amazing decoration jobs to list, and some of the player shops had decorations that blew me away. I never came close to seeing them all though.

Zorvan's Avatar


Zorvan
12.15.2013 , 11:49 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
To people who claim that GTA/Assassin are sandbox, I have to disagree there. Those are open world non-linear theme parks. Yes, you can do some "side stuff" in any order you want to, but in the end, you still have to progress through the "main stuff" to unlock more "side stuff".
Sandbox usually means you can create the content using the tools in game (not talking about SDKs, those are not part of game). For example, Spore was/is a sandbox, Minecraft is a sandbox, and so on.
GTA is more along what I was talking about earlier in the thread. It's a sandpark, not a sandbox. That's why it's massively successful, it caters to people on both sides of the spectrum.

For those sandbox types who just want to run around killing people, shooting cops, making money, or doing car tricks it's great.

For those in the middle ( the majority when it comes to mmos and even a large part of those who play only singleplayer games I think ) who like that stuff but also want some direction in where their experience takes them, the campaign adds to that.

And for those who simply want a good themepark ride from A to B without messing with the "frivolities" , they're covered too.

For instance, take the campaign story out of GTA and Rockstar would be like a CCP or Egosoft. One of those "niche" developers that enjoy a small but dedicated group of fans enjoying their games, but avoided by the majority of the gaming population at large.

The Elder Scrolls games are also sandparks, not sandboxes as many erroneously refer to them as. And we see how successful those games are ( the singleplayer games anyway, the mmo appears to be the upcoming black mark against the series from what I've seen so far ).

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
12.15.2013 , 11:51 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
One reviewer described EVE best as an MMO that made deep-space exploration into a boring mess of spreadsheets and that EVE players are to nerds what nerds are to normal people.

Find a better example.
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
All I said was find a better example of a successful sandbox game because EVE is a horrible game.
I am really confused, the guy makes the point that there are "successful" sandbox games still out there and uses EVE as an example and you say it doesn't count because you don't like its style of gameplay?

I personally have no desire whatsoever to play EVE as the gameplay doesn't appeal to me AT ALL, but the game's been running for over 10 years now and has way more Subs than SWTOR - I don't think there's any question it's a successful game.

If all you've got is "it's a horrible game"... well, to put it in your own words:
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
Horrible opinion-based judgment calls are awesome.
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
And you can't win/lose an argument that's based on personal 'feelings.'
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
12.16.2013 , 12:02 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by MarvelZombie View Post
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Everquest Next/Landmark. SOE-hate aside, it looks a solid AAA attempt at a true sandbox MMO. Check out the dev diaries...I gotta say, it looks like it has potential. And if it fails, we may not ever see another big budget sandbox MMO for a long, long time.
It sure look like it has potential, but holding up a game as an example that is not yet even in Beta is not a great idea.

Zorvan's Avatar


Zorvan
12.16.2013 , 12:24 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomXChance View Post
It sure look like it has potential, but holding up a game as an example that is not yet even in Beta is not a great idea.
Oh come on. Smedley said so! And we know Smed would never lie!