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The Bounty Hunter story is broken

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
The Bounty Hunter story is broken

fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg's Avatar


fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg
12.14.2013 , 10:55 AM | #51
The only thing about playing a LS bounty hunter is how you end up with Skadge. You are basically hiring a bloodthirsty guy who would like nothing less than to torture a planet's entire population and your BH says: welcome to the team. If only there was a LS option where I could jettison him out the airlock and into the sun. Skadge just doesn't fit in with how a LS hunter would be. For a DS hunter however you would probably fit in with him so much that you would probably invite him to you bachelor party before you marry Mako and make him the best man.
Speak softly, and carry a big blaster.

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
12.14.2013 , 01:43 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg View Post
The only thing about playing a LS bounty hunter is how you end up with Skadge. You are basically hiring a bloodthirsty guy who would like nothing less than to torture a planet's entire population and your BH says: welcome to the team. If only there was a LS option where I could jettison him out the airlock and into the sun. Skadge just doesn't fit in with how a LS hunter would be. For a DS hunter however you would probably fit in with him so much that you would probably invite him to you bachelor party before you marry Mako and make him the best man.
Yeah my main bounty hunter (mercenary) isn't pure light side (I followed the Bounty Hunter's Creed from the comics/novels as best the game would allow, which is pretty good... always surprise people that I was 10,000 with Mako by level 30 with no gifts) but shes about Light I or II. Even then, I was just like Seriously? I would not let this psychopath on my ship... *** Bioware.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
12.14.2013 , 01:59 PM | #53
The problem is that there are some characters you can't kill and others you can't spare. And the distinction is arbitrary.

If you can't spare Master Jarro, what reason is there to spare Gault? If you can't kill Gault, why do I have to kill Master Jarro? The reason that a Lightside Bounty Hunter gives to Jarro as to why he needs to kill him is that he has a code that he always keeps his contract. Except there is literally no way that is true because he didn't bring in Gault. A Lightside Hunter's merciful choices essentially amounts to a character that spares and kills people at random.

Second the whole premise of the Bounty Hunter's story is that he's only dependent on money, which frankly feels flimsy. Why do I need the money? I'm not any poorer than any other class of player character. The other three Imperial characters are actually forced to be in the situations they are in and still can somehow get away with disobeying direct orders in some cases. Yet the one class that is ostensibly the one independent Imperial character is actually railroaded the most because they are always participating in a professional murder competition and always for greed and glory.

Sith Warriors can commit outright treason by helping the enemy on occasion. In Act 1 at least, Sith and Agents can be given explicit orders to terminate someone and just ignore it,.

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
12.14.2013 , 04:58 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
The problem is that there are some characters you can't kill and others you can't spare. And the distinction is arbitrary.

If you can't spare Master Jarro, what reason is there to spare Gault? If you can't kill Gault, why do I have to kill Master Jarro? The reason that a Lightside Bounty Hunter gives to Jarro as to why he needs to kill him is that he has a code that he always keeps his contract. Except there is literally no way that is true because he didn't bring in Gault. A Lightside Hunter's merciful choices essentially amounts to a character that spares and kills people at random.

Second the whole premise of the Bounty Hunter's story is that he's only dependent on money, which frankly feels flimsy. Why do I need the money? I'm not any poorer than any other class of player character. The other three Imperial characters are actually forced to be in the situations they are in and still can somehow get away with disobeying direct orders in some cases. Yet the one class that is ostensibly the one independent Imperial character is actually railroaded the most because they are always participating in a professional murder competition and always for greed and glory.

Sith Warriors can commit outright treason by helping the enemy on occasion. In Act 1 at least, Sith and Agents can be given explicit orders to terminate someone and just ignore it,.
My reply contains some spoilers, so doing the "right" thing and tagging it.

Spoiler
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
02.28.2014 , 04:42 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Zojak View Post
The problem here isn't that "lightside" doesn't fit, it's that the bounty hunter is hunting bounties but is pinned into the Empire's storylines. It makes no sense for a Bounty Hunter to be defaultly aligned to the Empire - even if the Mandalorians ARE helping them.
It would be fun if BH could choose between empire/republic planetary missiongivers. At least until up to the point where he kills his first jedi/republic official, which doesn't take long iirc.. In fact one of the best parts of the BH storyline for me was how things escalated from there and the BH ended up with the galaxy's highest bounty on his head.

Also
Quote:
Vesper Lynd: "It doesn't bother you? Killing all those people?"
James Bond: "Well I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did."
- Casino Royale
ps. Some of the empire planetary missions are blatantly evil. However, technically you aren't required to do them. Just get xp from somewhere else.

pps. Theres some great discussion here. I myself enjoy playing bad guys, so empire storylines are often just what I want, but I can understand how people feel about the illogicalities of some of the story stuff such as being forced to take Skadge onboard.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.28.2014 , 09:23 AM | #56
I have to agree with what Mercurial_Harpy said. The BH storyline simply doesn't accommodate for this kind of character. Because ultimately you are in the employ of the Hutts, the Empire and the Sith. There is nothing noble about these people, they enslave, they are xenophobic, they commit genocide they exact suffering of others for personal enjoyment they revel in war and bloodshed and they want to take over the entire gosh darn galaxy.

Your "noble viglante" would never have worked for them in the first place.

Simply put, if you want the BH storyline to work then your going to have to sacrifice a few morals.

Though I must admit when you really start to scrutinize your character choices and try and define your character's morality, you are going to encounter some rough spots. I'm currently grappling with my DS BH trying to work out what he believes. I think its partly the above sentiment. He does his job, if that means cutting off someone's head and delivering it to his wife then fine. He isn't going to cut corners because if he does he fall to the bottom of the pile.

He's also generally adverse to showing weakness due to his personal history...

And I think this "noble vigilante" character helps with that, this character would not progress as a servant of the Empire, and he would never become the Republic's Most Wanted, he wouldn't even be able to complete the Great Hunt.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
02.28.2014 , 02:06 PM | #57
My main objection was that Agent and even Sith Lord PCs can more or less be rationalized to being a good person in a bad place. The Bounty Hunter is the only character forced to RP a bad person. And it's not even made clear to you right away. After Nar Shadda, Mako asks if we are any different from the Ideleon because she's worried about being the bad guys.

You can admit you are a bad guy but I picked the option to say that the people we bring down deserve it, and so far that had been true. But later on it unavoidably isn't. And the only options I have are between a murderous psychopath and a murderous hypocrite.

And yes exactly, he wouldn't compete in the Great Hunt. That's why the Great Hunt shouldn't have been the entirely of Act 1.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.28.2014 , 02:27 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
My main objection was that Agent and even Sith Lord PCs can more or less be rationalized to being a good person in a bad place. The Bounty Hunter is the only character forced to RP a bad person. And it's not even made clear to you right away. After Nar Shadda, Mako asks if we are any different from the Ideleon because she's worried about being the bad guys.

You can admit you are a bad guy but I picked the option to say that the people we bring down deserve it, and so far that had been true. But later on it unavoidably isn't. And the only options I have are between a murderous psychopath and a murderous hypocrite.

And yes exactly, he wouldn't compete in the Great Hunt. That's why the Great Hunt shouldn't have been the entirely of Act 1.
The Imperial Agent and the Sith Warrior/Inquisitor go on their fair share of murderous rampages. This is game mechanics really, you have to kill enemies. However these guys are always armed and attack you on sight. Though a BH adverse to killing is just not bounty hunting material, they have to accept that people will get in the way.

However I think the difference is that they are loyal to the Empire, which excuses many of their actions against the Republic. You are trying to roleplay a factionless vigilante. But ultimately the BH is a servant of the Empire too.

Fault on BioWare's part? Not exactly. The faction split means you have to help the Empire despite your suppose autonomy, which leads you to do lots of Imperial things e.g. eliminating pro-Republic Mandos, killing a prominent Jedi and Mando Killer etc. etc. If you accept the Republic are your enemy this makes these things easier.

However on second thoughts I don't think the Great Hunt is so bad. Its a competition revolving around collecting bounties, you don't have to kill said bounties and said bounties are generally legitimate. And when they are not they is often an option. Though if they gimped that they'd be gimping the DSiders and glory hunters i.e the majority.

And in all honesty, you can sugar coat the bounty hunting profession all you like, but ultimately you are a hired killer normally in the employ of either the Empire or the Underworld i.e. very unpleasant people. Your not RoboCop.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
02.28.2014 , 03:02 PM | #59
The Agent and Sith aren't really given any choice in their predicaments and even they are inexplicably given leeway in certain circumstances to be uncharacteristically merciful. Lord Baras orders his apprentice specifically to kill a Jedi Master and he or she can just say "Well, I delivered my message" and disobey a direct order without consequences, not even a stern talking to. Intelligence orders Cipher Nine to eliminate Mia Hawkins after she's no longer useful? You can let her go. Going undercover for the sole purpose of assassinating Arden Kothe? You can still let him go. Agents can even become actual traitors to the Empire in the end.

The difference is since Sith basically have little to no control over their destiny anyway, you can roleplay your character any number of ways. But the Bounty Hunter has no such in universe restrictions, meaning he or she is railroaded into always enjoying a professional murder contest. One that you have to steal somebody else's ship to even get into. If Secret Police and Evil Overlords can get their professions sugercoated, why not Bounty Hunters?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.28.2014 , 03:19 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
The Agent and Sith aren't really given any choice in their predicaments and even they are inexplicably given leeway in certain circumstances to be uncharacteristically merciful. Lord Baras orders his apprentice specifically to kill a Jedi Master and he or she can just say "Well, I delivered my message" and disobey a direct order without consequences, not even a stern talking to. Intelligence orders Cipher Nine to eliminate Mia Hawkins after she's no longer useful? You can let her go. Going undercover for the sole purpose of assassinating Arden Kothe? You can still let him go. Agents can even become actual traitors to the Empire in the end.

The difference is since Sith basically have little to no control over their destiny anyway, you can roleplay your character any number of ways. But the Bounty Hunter has no such in universe restrictions, meaning he or she is railroaded into always enjoying a professional murder contest. One that you have to steal somebody else's ship to even get into. If Secret Police and Evil Overlords can get their professions sugercoated, why not Bounty Hunters?
I think you overstate how little choice the Bounty Hunter is given:
Spoiler
And you can spare as opposed to kill almost all your other targets as well.

In fact aside from the Jedi Master (who is an enemy of the Empire and killer of many Mandalorians) I'm pretty sure you don't have to kill anyone if you don't want to. However you are no more autonomous than any other faction, only the Empire, their Mandalorians allies and the Underworld are going to hire you, so some things you will be typically bad.