Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

BiS Relics for Healers PvP/PvE

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Healing
BiS Relics for Healers PvP/PvE

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.03.2013 , 03:00 PM | #1
Updated for patch 2.8.1

Simple question with probably a somewhat complicated answer. What relics to take.
All conclusions are based on latest data and analyses and are subject to change

Player versus Environment:

Slot 1 :
Focused Retribution (MS Proc)

Slot 2:
Proc/Clicky based on playstyle/fight

Proc:
Serendipitous Assault (Power Proc)

Clicky:
Boundless Ages (Power Click) - This is mathematically a worse choice but can still be used (more information to follow in the playstyle section)

Player versus Player:

Slot 1:
Focused Retribution (MS Proc)

Slot 2:
Serendipitous Assault (Power Proc)

Gearing:

I strongly suggest to get your valour to 40 (doable while levelling) and obtaining the Obroan/Brutaliser proccing relics (Power, MS).
If you are really adverse to getting PvP relics, you can also obtain free Arkanian relics by completing the Oricon story quest but these are inferior to UW.

Main Stat proc are not available at the Underworld or Kell Dragon levels. Again your best bet is Brutaliser relic but you may also gain Arkanian versions via the Oricon quest.

For Clicky, Boundless ages is available at every level of PvE (including crafted Rakata and Campaign/Dread Guard) and mostly you want the highest upgrade, except if you have gotten your DG relic before 2.0, in which case you want to skip Arkanian.

Playstyle:

First a few general things. There are no go-to numbers for healers. HPS, EHPS or HPCT are only marginally useful in determining what is BiS and almost useless in comparing the classes. The only thing that comes close is the damage dealt to the raid as a whole that requires healing (and in fact you can deduct PlayerHealth-1 from that as even if everybody ends up at 1 HP, the content has been successfully healed). Then divide it by 2/3/4 to get HPSPH (Heals per second per healer).

Another issue about HPS is that you will never have both healers heal exactly the same way and even if you split the group, your tank and DPS will not take the same amount of damage. Furthermore, as your group learns the fight they will be able to limit damage and thus lowering healing needed.

You do not necessarily want to have healers with very high HPS sustained. Fights vary greatly and often require different amounts of healing at different times. You want healers that work with these changes and know when to burst and when to tend to their resource, idle or even do some damage. Unlike DPS where you are given a damage (HP of boss) and time (enrage) and your team simply has to do the required DPS (this includes tank damage and obviously adds will add to the damage needed), healing is not about doing certain HPS. It is about making sure people do not die.

So what this thread set out to do is finding which relic make that job easier. As a result this led to the following debate.

Proc, Stat or Click?

Perhaps now with the discontinued Boundless Ages relic, this debate is somewhat irrelevant but the principle stands. Originally healers had only click relics to use, then passive stat boosts were added in the for of PvP relics which were great for healers as they increased their power across the board. Finally came the procs, originally in the form of a HoT (which was terrible) and finally in terms of Power and MS increase.

The issue some healers had was the unpredictability of procs. They wanted to have control over their healing and thus opted for the click instead. Others preferred the zero fuss of procs and stat boosts, using Adrenals and cooldowns when needed. Neither approach is wrong. This is why, even now, I cannot say that choosing to use a BA is wrong. I can tell you that it will give you less of an increase over the whole fight but if that is not an issue, you are aware of it and willing to live with it go ahead.

Why do I suggest the procs?

As pointed out healing is not about having the highest HPS. Having said that, the higher you can pump it up the higher is your 'healing potential' which will make healing easier overall and lead to less 'emergencies' where a click relic might have been a better choice. Even if you relics do not proc during the 'emergency' they are likely to proc soon after, making your recovery easier.

The proc relics atm do just that, give you the highest 'healing potential'.

In Closing

I CANNOT tell you that you are healing incorrectly if your raid is surviving (there is of course the issue of how 'tight' the survival is). If you are using completely different relics and having success, that's great! However, I set out to answer what relics are Best in Slot. Having established what I meant by 'Best' I CAN tell you that your choice is only wrong in terms of not giving you the highest 'healing potential'.


List of contributors:
Orderken - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sharing#gid=0l
Oofalong
Johnbgood

For past discussion of this topic you can check : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6813644 but please post into this thread which will be updated.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

Orderken's Avatar


Orderken
12.04.2013 , 10:37 AM | #2
1. FR outperforms SA, albeit very slightly. I recommend FR, not SA, as the first choice.


2. I tested relics today.

(a) DF FR has a 20-second CD for procs from healing, and a separate 20-second CD for procs from damage dealt (including damage dealt solely by DoTs). If you were to start a stopwatch when it procs, over the next 20 seconds, the uptime of its buff will range from 6 to 12 seconds. When the procs overlap, giving, for example, an uptime of 9 seconds, your main stat will be exactly 740 higher throughout. That is, overlapping procs don't stack.

(b) KD SA is similar. It has separate CDs for procs from healing or from damage dealt (including damage dealt solely by DoTs), and overlapping procs don't stack.

(c) DF, Obroan, or Conqueror SA has a unified 20-second CD for procs from healing or damage dealt (including damage dealt solely by DoTs). If you were to start a stopwatch when it procs, the uptime of its buff will be exactly 6 seconds, and it can't proc again until the 20th second.

I don't have a Obroan or Conqueror FR relic to test.


3. If you maintain a DoT for a majority of a fight, KD SA > DF SA. My model assumes that relics can proc at most once every 20 seconds, so a DF FR or KD SA relic can perform better than my model indicates. I'm not in the habit of maintaining a DoT, but for healers who do, KD SA > DF SA.
Orderken, <Hates You>, Prophecy of the Five
Guides for Healing - Sorcerer / Sage
Models for PVE Healing - Sorcerer or Sage / Mercenary or Commando / Operative or Scoundrel

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.04.2013 , 04:22 PM | #3
FFS there is not going to be time when relics are fixed...
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

NeNiMel's Avatar


NeNiMel
12.09.2013 , 02:52 PM | #4
Darth_Dreselus and Orderken I just want to thank you both for the great work you are doing regarding BiS healing relics. It's really nice to have a up to date and detailed overview over what relics to choose for healing.

I have linked this post from my mercenary healing guide, so more people will see it

Keep up the good work
A T M E A || < R A G N A R O K >
T H E . R E D . E C I L P S E

johnbgood's Avatar


johnbgood
12.13.2013 , 08:07 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
...
Double proccing (i.e. procs from both heals and damage inside the intended 20s window)

Focused Retribution - yes for Dread Forged
Serendipitous Assault - yes for Kell Dragon, no for other.
the underworld version of serendipitous assault does double proc too.

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.14.2013 , 10:55 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by johnbgood View Post
the underworld version of serendipitous assault does double proc too.
Thanks.

Also I just found this. It's for DPS but still useful as we now use same relics.

Added a section on playstyle.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

Simmerr's Avatar


Simmerr
12.18.2013 , 05:00 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by johnbgood View Post
the underworld version of serendipitous assault does double proc too.
Can confirm this
Str'iker -- Assassin Tank
Str'yker -- Merc DPS
You're gonna push your luck

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
12.22.2013 , 11:16 AM | #8
Nice work. Any news on Matrix Cube for PVP?


p.s: I tried it in PVP it gets bolstered to full expertise and 125 willpower (the Inquistor one obviously)
The Red Eclipse <PC Gamer Mint Imperials>
Kja || Kejann || Snsa || Kyr Meirend || Myr || Kte || Jeanene || Maelin
The Ebon Hawk <Aisthesis>
Medin

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.22.2013 , 04:58 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
Nice work. Any news on Matrix Cube for PVP?


p.s: I tried it in PVP it gets bolstered to full expertise and 125 willpower (the Inquistor one obviously)
Since the FR+SA combo I don't think it's worth it.

125 WP is below the bonuses you expect to get from the two procs. Another way of looking at it is that if you get 125 WP that's even lower than the 120 pwr you would get from EWH.

If somebody wants to calculate it in any better way go ahead but my gut feeling tells me that it is worse than the two Obroan relics. Going by this the FA relic has a 77% estimated uptime and even if it only procs once every 21s that is still (6/21)*625=179 WP. The SA will give you the same kind of Power and the Crit increase is likely negligible.

In fact I am going to remove it from the OP.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
12.23.2013 , 11:25 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
In fact I am going to remove it from the OP.
But It's better than the conqueror FR, right? So it's a good replacement until you can get the Obroan
The Red Eclipse <PC Gamer Mint Imperials>
Kja || Kejann || Snsa || Kyr Meirend || Myr || Kte || Jeanene || Maelin
The Ebon Hawk <Aisthesis>
Medin