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Lethality build PvP


CriticalFlame's Avatar


CriticalFlame
12.12.2013 , 02:07 PM | #1
I'm curious what the best choice of talents would be for my 55 Lethality PvP specced OP. Anyone have advice/tips for me?

Arstechnica's Avatar


Arstechnica
12.13.2013 , 03:21 PM | #2
1. Talent that replaces both dots with weaker versions of the original.
2. Talent that slows movement on acid grenade.
3. Talent that gives energy back when the dots crit.
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CriticalFlame's Avatar


CriticalFlame
12.13.2013 , 03:49 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Arstechnica View Post
1. Talent that replaces both dots with weaker versions of the original.
2. Talent that slows movement on acid grenade.
3. Talent that gives energy back when the dots crit.
Is that all? I was more talking about talent build, rotation and perhaps stat priority

Modules's Avatar


Modules
12.17.2013 , 07:31 AM | #4
hi there

after playing concealment (2.2+ only, came late to this game) extensively, i switched to lethality and i like it far better.
my current favored build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...GMbkrrRoMsuz.3

preferences are:

* no weakening blast - range makes it crap, it's a melee range ability which doesnt do much, since i only use melee range to finish people off via cull-chain
* no slip away, since i lack points (sadly)
* concealed attacks -> infiltrator; i like to move faster in stealth, and be detected less. can't help that, coming from concealment the 16% crit on HS and backstab are very nice too (two big hitters, especially backstab can be used in your melee rotation)
* incisive action - TA generation, and getting heals off way faster. i even used this in concealment spec and can't really see myself ever without it


gameplay and rotation in pvp:

* before engaging battle, make sure your team members are seen first. why is this important? we're very squishy, and need time to setup our DoT bubble to be of use
* tab through all enemies, and apply your two DoTs to everyone
* keep doing this while there's no progress in the battle, should be very busy already, since ppl will occasionally cleanse and/or purge your DoTs, and they don't last forever
* if there's low health targets you can finish off, or you see the opportunity to pressure their healer without sacrificing your relative safety in the backline of your own team, approach and start culling. shiv gives you TA, as well as stim boost, and if fatality kicks in, this is 3 culls. then just keep shiving and culling. or, before you approach, you can use your kolto injection twice on your team, if you picked incisive action
* don't be afraid to use your heals to offheal freely. just make sure the enemy doesn't think you're a full healer, since you don't wanna get focused. once you set up your DoT bubble, you gain much energy, and offheals won't be as taxing in terms of energy management
* run away! your DoTs already make them pay, while you LoS and heal to full seriously though. you will die very fast, it's better to keep the range

in terms of damage numbers, lethality can compete with the best of them. but ofc it's a DoT spec, so usually no 10k hits

hope this helps a bit

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
12.17.2013 , 08:50 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Modules View Post
hi there

* incisive action - TA generation, and getting heals off way faster. i even used this in concealment spec and can't really see myself ever without it
finally somebody that uses this skill as well for lethality. I think it is quite useful, since the main problem of this spec (save survivablity) is that you can really get TA from range and you have to full melee to shiv. So before you engage in a skirmish just pop an off heal (the reduced CD is also kind of nice) and you can at least get one cull off.

I disagree about weakening blast, in my mind this is a must have skill for lethality, because it makes our burst even stronger (once the ramp up is done). the damage it does itself is not so important, but it makes your next 10 dot ticks hit 30% harder. Considering that your strongest Dot effect is cull itself just using it before going into the cull chain makes lethality have an insane backloaded burst and i wouldnt want to miss out on this.

When it comes to pve there is great guide by KBN on how to play the scoundrel version you just have to translate the abilites. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674002

as for pvp your playstyle is a bit weird, compared to literally every other class. You are kind of a skirmisher that gets melee or midrange to do some sick damage in very little time and then you try to get the hell out of there and basically kite people around, dot them up get into melee again rinse and repeat. The class out side of heals spec is very squishy and lethality probably suffers the most of it since you can use stealth as effectively as concealment and yet are forced to come very close very the action is.

So either you open from stealth with hs, dot people up with corrosive grenade and dart, shiv, weakening blast and cull, cull, cull. Or you dot from afar and just come in for shiv, weakening blast and the cull. More important than an actual rotation is that you are always on the move. When you cull move around of your target and try to make it as hard as possible to focus you (carnage marauders only can get their damage of when are facing you straight, and you dont really want that). Also you want to avoid knockbacks and at least with sages, standing behind them saves you from that. You can also can get a back stab off (i dont spec into the energy cost reduction, since the attack isnt as essential to lethality as it is to concealment, but it is still nice damage every now and again)

The class has some great tool for kiting, which one should definitely use. Sever tendon for example is just great to get some distance and of course troll roll (be careful it cost 1/4 of your energy), which has a 30% chance to proc a free instant heal as well. Debilitate has only 30s CD (i use that in all three spec, because it is just so damn useful) and the all non operative hate flashbang anyway. if you are in 1v1 flashbang h2f, can make the difference between life and death (note you can spec into YOUR DoTs not breaking YOUR CC, this is when this is actually useful).

Lethality has a bit of a bad name, with good scrappers and concealments, since it is a dot spec, that is it only fluff damage that is easily cleanse away. As it is now only scoundrel and mandos can cleanse your dots, since scoundrel healers are very prevalent in competitive pvp and even in regs, it might be an issue. In regs most healers at least from my experience don't cleanse dots (or anything on their teammates) so it is less of an issue. the bad name though comes from a play style that comes very natural with lethality, but isnt really effective: you just spam dot everybody from 30m range and just stay there in order not get killed. While you can top the damage charts with this easily (you can even give a smasher a run for the money in terms of damage) you haven't really contributed much in actually killing somebody. Lethality as said can do a sick amount of damage, can tear almost every class to pieces if you get those cull off on a dotted target and you really help your team if you get used to the skirmisher play style.

Just to point it out, lethality and concealment are very different. Concealment should harass the off nodes, seek weak target left alone by the group, or the healers at the backline and general wants a 1v1 situation, lethality should be engaged at the main battle. Lethality is not so good in concealments job, since it has this ramp up. if you try to kill a node guard an cap say, in novare, it just takes why longer than with the front loaded "burst" (or what is left of it) of concealment. You can win 1v1 and you can ninja cap and all but concealment is plainly better at it (although it is still much worse than what a deception assassin can do). The big trouble is lethality while actually being fine damage and burst wise, lacks melee CDs and actually to anything for the team still has to go melee. As it seems you have to live with that and adapt. That means try to avoid AoE as much as possible, and l2kite, and use your cc as your defense. You are in the current state not a viable option for arenas (at least against smart people), but if you play the spec well you can be major nuissance in regs.

Modules's Avatar


Modules
12.17.2013 , 09:08 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Cordorian View Post
I disagree about weakening blast, in my mind this is a must have skill for lethality, because it makes our burst even stronger (once the ramp up is done). the damage it does itself is not so important, but it makes your next 10 dot ticks hit 30% harder. Considering that your strongest Dot effect is cull itself just using it before going into the cull chain makes lethality have an insane backloaded burst and i wouldnt want to miss out on this.
had a look at it again.
cull's not a DoT, but weakening blast increases damage of poison effects, and cull is a poison effect
thanks for making me re-read the skill description (lol ;D) ... will play around with that

edit:
so yea, i think when weakening blast becomes mandatory, i'll drop 4 points from concealment tree, and spend them on slip away 2/2, quickening 2nd point, weakening blast. which is by then pretty standard build i guess ;]

Arcadius-Fett's Avatar


Arcadius-Fett
12.17.2013 , 09:18 AM | #7
Sorry, Modules, but that is simply not an optimal build, very close though. You're sacrificing Weakening Blast and a point in Quickening for Incisive Action? I can see you taking out Quickening for something else but 30% extra damage from your DoTs is a big deal and you're missing it. Especially with the play style you mentioned (tab target and DoT everything in sight before moving on with your actual rotation). I feel as though going for Incisive is a waste of points, but if you're not one to run with a guildmate or buddy who heals then I can see why you'd try to justify it.

Augmented Shields. Dude, you NEED this. Lethality is not a stealth dependent spec, and this skill makes Shield Probe a useful ability, and will completely provide enough reason to forget about Incisive. Also, you don't need Infiltrator, swap this for Slip Away. The slow on your Corrosive Grenade and the reduced cooldown will more than make up for it. And again, you are not playing Concealment, you are not relying on stealth as much as you think.

Here's a great build.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...hrbkrrRRMsuR.3
When I play this spec I have absolutely no trouble, you can be in the thick of it dotting people up and moving on with your rotation.
Ziara - Vanaden
The Shadowlands

Modules's Avatar


Modules
12.17.2013 , 09:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Arcadius-Fett View Post
You're sacrificing Weakening Blast and a point in Quickening for Incisive Action? I can see you taking out Quickening for something else but 30% extra damage from your DoTs is a big deal and you're missing it. Especially with the play style you mentioned (tab target and DoT everything in sight before moving on with your actual rotation).
hm, felt more like sacrificing it for infiltrator, which i'll maybe drop now (see edit, misconception about weakening blast not increasing cull dmg on my part)
for the tab-DoT'ing, i still can't see how weakening blast is useful without picking out one target, since it's still melee range and not AoE (so, only one target, and you have to get close)

Quote: Originally Posted by Arcadius-Fett View Post
Augmented Shields. Dude, you NEED this. [...] this skill makes Shield Probe a useful ability, and will completely provide enough reason to forget about Incisive.
hm, you think? i kinda never saw the point in shield probe, despite using them quite often. as is now, it's doing next to nothing, can't really imagine that 30% more absorption will do anything to change that. but i'll try it out

Arcadius-Fett's Avatar


Arcadius-Fett
12.17.2013 , 10:06 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Modules View Post
hm, felt more like sacrificing it for infiltrator, which i'll maybe drop now (see edit, misconception about weakening blast not increasing cull dmg on my part)
for the tab-DoT'ing, i still can't see how weakening blast is useful without picking out one target, since it's still melee range and not AoE (so, only one target, and you have to get close)
Yeah I get where you're coming from, but once you DoT your enemies (which shouldn't take long since many will get dotted by the same grenade) you need to focus on a single target, and that's where Weakening Blast comes in, you'll find your targets going down much quicker than before which in turn allows you to move on to the next victim. Of course, this is something you must do while continuously throwing Corrosive Grenades. Again, since your target will probably be running away from you and near his teammates, you'll be able to DoT them all together with less grenades while staying on your target.

Quote:
hm, you think? i kinda never saw the point in shield probe, despite using them quite often. as is now, it's doing next to nothing, can't really imagine that 30% more absorption will do anything to change that. but i'll try it out
Yeah, Shield Probe sucks right now, but obviously you should still be using it. However, Augmented Shields actually makes this skill useful. Like I said, you will notice the difference.
Ziara - Vanaden
The Shadowlands

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
12.17.2013 , 10:26 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Arcadius-Fett View Post

Yeah, Shield Probe sucks right now, but obviously you should still be using it. However, Augmented Shields actually makes this skill useful. Like I said, you will notice the difference.
well if you get smash, you get smash and shield probe won't do much about it with without this buff. If i had to choose incisive action, for the offhealing and TA from range against augmented shields, my choice is clear. Your best defense is kiting anyway, which yeah against a smasher is difficult anyway.