Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Very hard to read your post but I think you are saying BW won't post because they would risk alienating (thereby driving away from the game) players. You also seem to be saying playing solo will make the game less enjoyable.

Ok, if this is what you are saying, I agree with your first point but disagree with the second....

Yes this is an MMO but it is a BW MMO and BW is famous for its story driven games. The solo experience in this game is awesome. The solo option to join WZs is for those people (the majority) who would rather not waste time looking to form a group and just want to get into the game. The only 'below average' aspect here will likely be the level of organization that a pug has. Premades know this going into a normal WZ and they count on it to get them easy comms.

So I don't care if BW addesses this issue in the forum, just as long as they fix the game so premades are no longer able to pugstomp.


- group queue in normal WZ
+ 8v8 ranked
=========================
fair for the majority

The main issue is even matches.

Premade vs pug results in less even matches. Premades aren't inherently better than pugs (outside of voice chat), however they have one major advantage that pugs can never have. CHOICE. Many premades choose poorly (haha)however, due to this choice, premade vs pug matches are less likely to be even.

Now the main reasons people want to premade are to win and to feel like better players. This is understandable and this is something most of us (myself included) want both in games and in real life. It is why I spend a stupid amount of money on my car every month lol. Because of the choice (voice chat, team composition, team gear, team skill) that premaders have they can win more often.

Another point, often overlooked, is that premade players play better than they would if they were in a pug. This is something I have realized over the years.

Let's pretend a player is a 6 out of 10 in overall skill. If you put him in a decent premade then he would likely become a 7 or 8. Heals, guards, peels, etc. all make it easier on a premade player. Even if you are an all dps premade it is still easier since you can help focus targets down together, etc. This is not to say that premaders are bad. If you are a 9.5 then a decent premade can make you a 9.8.

So, imo, if you want more even matches the best idea is not to attack premaders. There is a reason to premade and premading is fun. Also, many premaders want more even matches. That is why premade matching is so sorely needed (not split q's). A simple matchmaking system only tries to wait a few minutes to make sure a premade is on either side. It doesn't make premades wait long.

If we focus on requesting premade matching and discuss the pros and cons then maybe eventually bw will do something.

I would like to ask people who currently premade a lot to tell me if you disagree with matchmaking and why.

ikr....

"gives us a solo only queue!" they demanded

So BW did

"No, give us another solo only queue!"

Premades have started abusing that by syncing their Q's. Still it's dead and Group Q is even deader.

BioFail l2dev

Matchmaking is desired by most if not all people here. But the concern for me is how long of a wait will incurr if the system is used. And what if no premade queues? Does the premade then be allowed to pugstomp?

No I believe removing group queuing in normal WZs is the most efficient way of doing it (provided 8v8 ranked is reintroduced) because it will not increase queue times, it will revialize the competitive aspect of WZs and it will protect the casual player from the pugstomping, premade bullies.

If matchmaking were added on top of removing group queuing and adding 8v8 ranked it would not have to be as complex as it would be comparing similar values (premades vs premades and pugs vs pugs) and thus not as drastic a wait in queues.

Not sure anyone could have a problem with prioritizing a premade v premade so each side has one, but it won't fix the issue. The problem is 1 premade is not equal to another premade, it just means you have groups on either side, not that they are the same skill level.

The problem with this thread is people are focusing on the wrong issue. The problem is that casual players are in the same queue with competitive players. They are searching for a way to make games more fair and getting rid of premades seems to be the easiest option. But it won't fix lopsided matches from happening and it won't resolve the issue for casual groups.

There is no good fix for the reg queue, it's a crapshoot. If you want to face solo players of equal skill level, do ranked. If you want to face groups only of equal skill level, do ranked. If you just wanna play for fun, do the reg queue. It's honestly that simple.

Let me guess, you teach victimology 101.

Queue sync is a lot harder with more players in the queue.

And there rarely are bc Arenas were a complete flop

So the debate becomes this, which group should be forced to go to ranked, solo or premade? Currenlty if a solo group (pug) wants to go aginst another pug, that is only available in ranked. But if a premade wants to group they have a choice...

For arguments' sake I am going to say there are far more casual players than ranked players but BW in its wisdom has reduced the choices for the majority.... Why? Are there more ranked players than solo? I am sure anyone with at least a single thought in their head can deduce this is just not the case. Maybe it is that BW feels that ranked players pay more money..... hmmm this would then lend support to another thread staing the P2W is a good idea.

What needs doing is something that will appeal to the majority and thereby draw more players to the game thus creating more revenue.

i.e......

+ 8v8 ranked
- group queues in normal
======================
fair for the majority.

I formed a PvP group with 3 guildies last night. We had:

• Sin Tank.

• Concealment Operative (me).

• Madness Sorc.

• Operative healer.

We won every Warzone we played in, but we had no advantage over the opposing PUG in terms of composition. They also had an Operative healer (usually two to our one) and a better variety of DPS (no Concealment Operatives, lol). We were not using voice-chat. The Madness Sorc and Sin Tank have only just joined the guild, so we're not an experienced foursome who know each other inside-out. I was trying Concealment for the first time and the healer is also still learning her class.

As you can see, we had no real advantages over the PUG, yet we were absolutely rolling them in some Warzones. We ran through Voidstar with over 4 minutes remaining and they couldn't even get past the first door in the second round. There was clearly something that was giving us a substantial edge. Want to know what it was?

Skill and experience. The four of us are all experienced PvPers who know how to win Warzones.

In Voidstar, the Sin Tank and Operative healer stunned the two guards while I stealth-capped. I rolled ahead and they used their slows and knockbacks to give me time to get the second bridge down. The other three held back from killing anyone so that I could plant on the second door before someone came down from the respawn. I rolled ahead to the final room and the other three again used slows, knockbacks and CCs to give me time to get the forcefield down. The final door took a little more time, but eventually our healer managed to cap when myself and the Sin coordinated our CCs.

When I was guarding in Civil War and Novare, I would call FIRST, then CC the capper near the end of their cap. If two came, I'd alternate CCing the two. When they reached full-resolve, I'd Interrupt them with a Fragmentation Grenade, then roll away and LoS. All of this was gaining valuable time for my team. The others were experienced enough to know that if I called "2 Snow" they only needed 1 to help me. 1 + 1 = 2. 2 vs 2 is an even fight.

In Hypergate, I'd stealth-cap with the Sin Tank. In Huttball, I'd roll ahead of the others and receive passes on the final ledges, or even in the enemy end-zone. We'd always have someone controlling Mid so that we could get the ball on the restart. If the enemy got the ball, we'd flood back and get in front of their team.

None of this required voice-chat. It was all instinctual. We knew that was what we had to do to win, so we did it.

TL;DR Not all pre-mades use voice-chat, have better gear than you or a perfect composition. A lot of the time, they are simply better players. As many others have pointed out, make some friends and form your own group. It's not difficult.