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Evasion vs missiles??

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Itkovian's Avatar


Itkovian
12.10.2013 , 02:29 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
I believe losing a lock on a ship that is clearly within the targetting arc is due to lag - the ship isnt actually in the arc anymore but the server didn't bother to tell you yet.

Certainly when *i* was getting locked, and didnt actively try to shake it off, it never failed to lock, and that was while i was flying a scout with 41% evasion.
No, it certainly wasn't lag, it's very easy to recognize lag at work and this was not the case and is in fact very common.

I THINK the way it probably works is if you are not maneuvering then the evasion doesn't kick in somehow, but if you do maneuver around then there is a chance a lock is lost.

Either way, there IS a mechanism at work that is causing lock attempts to end prematurely that are not related to the engine or distortion abilities, and is not lag (that much is clear when dealing with a target not even close to max range or the edge of the missile arc). My guess is that mechanism must be evasion.

Itkovian's Avatar


Itkovian
12.10.2013 , 02:31 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Jordansc View Post
Engine ability and evasion (with upgrade) only break missile lock. Not the actual missiles after they've been fired. Once fired, the only way I've been able to ditch them is by bursting away or barrel roll away long enough that they burn out before hitting.

And from personal experience keep track if you're on a scout with barrel roll or a different engine ability. After switching to retro i kept hitting it to throw me into the missile behind me. Not a very effective maneuver.
Actually, if a missile is in flight and you use your engine ability, the missile loses the lock and you will NOT get hit. I have seen this happened countless time with all missile types.

The only reason you might get hit if you still use the ability, is if lag made it seem like you used the ability before the missile hit, but you were actually hit before that.

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.10.2013 , 02:32 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Jordansc View Post
Engine ability and evasion (with upgrade) only break missile lock. Not the actual missiles after they've been fired. Once fired, the only way I've been able to ditch them is by bursting away or barrel roll away long enough that they burn out before hitting.

And from personal experience keep track if you're on a scout with barrel roll or a different engine ability. After switching to retro i kept hitting it to throw me into the missile behind me. Not a very effective maneuver.
LOL, I was thinking about trying retro thrusters but I never thought about what would happen if you use it when a missile is coming for you.

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.10.2013 , 02:34 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Itkovian View Post
Actually, if a missile is in flight and you use your engine ability, the missile loses the lock and you will NOT get hit. I have seen this happened countless time with all missile types.

The only reason you might get hit if you still use the ability, is if lag made it seem like you used the ability before the missile hit, but you were actually hit before that.
They talked about it on the live stream, a target abruptly changing direction or just flat out speed can cause you to lose lock.

ChrisSchmidt's Avatar


ChrisSchmidt
12.10.2013 , 02:44 PM | #15 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Howdy folks,

Thought I would pop in a clarify a couple of things. There are a couple of ways to break a lock-on sequence when no missile has been fired yet:
  • Skilled piloting, such as maneuvering outside of the opponent's secondary firing arc, or trying to break line of sight by zooming around or inside of asteroids or other objects.
  • Activating a defensive maneuver type engine ability (such as Koiogran Turn, Power Dive, Barrel Roll, Retro Thrusters or Snap Turn).

Once a missile is in-flight, the only way to avoid being hit is to activate a defensive maneuver type engine ability (the same list as above). This will 'evade' the missile. Visually, the missile will still complete its journey towards your ship, but it will not explode and no damage will be done to you.

As an added bonus, when your ship is actively executing a defensive maneuver, enemies cannot lock-on to you. On their end they will hear an error buzz when they attempt to right click to lock-on.

Hopefully this clarifies a few things!

Brewski's Avatar


Brewski
12.11.2013 , 12:05 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisSchmidt View Post
Howdy folks,

Thought I would pop in a clarify a couple of things. There are a couple of ways to break a lock-on sequence when no missile has been fired yet:
  • Skilled piloting, such as maneuvering outside of the opponent's secondary firing arc, or trying to break line of sight by zooming around or inside of asteroids or other objects.
  • Activating a defensive maneuver type engine ability (such as Koiogran Turn, Power Dive, Barrel Roll, Retro Thrusters or Snap Turn).

Once a missile is in-flight, the only way to avoid being hit is to activate a defensive maneuver type engine ability (the same list as above). This will 'evade' the missile. Visually, the missile will still complete its journey towards your ship, but it will not explode and no damage will be done to you.

As an added bonus, when your ship is actively executing a defensive maneuver, enemies cannot lock-on to you. On their end they will hear an error buzz when they attempt to right click to lock-on.

Hopefully this clarifies a few things!
Thanks for the clarification!

Does this mean that it's also not possible to outrun a missile short of using an evasion maneuver? So if I just put my finger on the boost and run straight, I can't get away, even if I get beyond the missiles range?

Itkovian's Avatar


Itkovian
12.11.2013 , 12:34 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisSchmidt View Post
Howdy folks,

Thought I would pop in a clarify a couple of things. There are a couple of ways to break a lock-on sequence when no missile has been fired yet:
  • Skilled piloting, such as maneuvering outside of the opponent's secondary firing arc, or trying to break line of sight by zooming around or inside of asteroids or other objects.
  • Activating a defensive maneuver type engine ability (such as Koiogran Turn, Power Dive, Barrel Roll, Retro Thrusters or Snap Turn).

Once a missile is in-flight, the only way to avoid being hit is to activate a defensive maneuver type engine ability (the same list as above). This will 'evade' the missile. Visually, the missile will still complete its journey towards your ship, but it will not explode and no damage will be done to you.

As an added bonus, when your ship is actively executing a defensive maneuver, enemies cannot lock-on to you. On their end they will hear an error buzz when they attempt to right click to lock-on.

Hopefully this clarifies a few things!
In that case, why is it that sometimes I will be locking someone in plain sight, far from the edge of my missile arc and far from max range, and my lock will suddenly end, requiring me to right click again and resume locking?

Basically I start locking, hear the beeping, then the low noise indicating a lost lock (with no visible cause whatsoever), then have to relock? Note that the target is not using any lock breaking ability or distruption shields.

Could it truly be explained by lag alone?

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.11.2013 , 01:12 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Itkovian View Post
In that case, why is it that sometimes I will be locking someone in plain sight, far from the edge of my missile arc and far from max range, and my lock will suddenly end, requiring me to right click again and resume locking?

Basically I start locking, hear the beeping, then the low noise indicating a lost lock (with no visible cause whatsoever), then have to relock? Note that the target is not using any lock breaking ability or distruption shields.

Could it truly be explained by lag alone?
Yeah this is happening a lot, I thought it was angle off attack or speed but if abilities and maneuvering outside the missile arc are the only things that can break lock then why am I losing lock several times in a row on someone in my missle arc?

Royox's Avatar


Royox
12.11.2013 , 01:37 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisSchmidt View Post

Once a missile is in-flight, the only way to avoid being hit is to activate a defensive maneuver type engine ability (the same list as above). This will 'evade' the missile. Visually, the missile will still complete its journey towards your ship, but it will not explode and no damage will be done to you.

Even with cluster missiles?


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ChrisSchmidt's Avatar


ChrisSchmidt
12.11.2013 , 02:11 PM | #20 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Itkovian View Post
In that case, why is it that sometimes I will be locking someone in plain sight, far from the edge of my missile arc and far from max range, and my lock will suddenly end, requiring me to right click again and resume locking?

Basically I start locking, hear the beeping, then the low noise indicating a lost lock (with no visible cause whatsoever), then have to relock? Note that the target is not using any lock breaking ability or distruption shields.

Could it truly be explained by lag alone?
Lost locks inside of a missile arc, with no action taken by the player on the receiving end of the lock, will typically be caused by lag. In order to ensure lock-ons are legit, they are securely verified on the server, which inevitably causes a bit of lag between communicating various bits of info back and forth. It's something you would typically observe at extremities - like near the edge of the firing arc or near the edge of the range for the weapon.

We've implemented some tricks to keep this perceived lag to a minimum, but it could help explain some of the behavior seen. One tip to possibly minimize the risk of losing a lock-on is to slightly lead your target, and keep them away from the edges of your firing arc.

But it's worth noting that far more often a lock will be broken due to what I explained earlier: your target executing a defensive maneuver or crossing in front of an asteroid for a split second while you have them in your sights.

All of that being said, we're going to investigate just to verify nothing else is going on with lock-ons. We don't want to assume anything!

As for evading missiles, no, there is nothing the player can do to outrun or evade a missile once it is in the air short of executing a defensive maneuver.