Hi I just felt like chiming in to say that...

Defender? Protector? Yes, you go that far, and further yet if you prefer blanket reduction over the spike defense of the 4% shield chance talent.

Exactly, which is why the things you mentioned in Defense is not worth it.

The only thing you sacrifice defensively is blade barrier (And if you prefer it, shield chance) and you gain quite a lot from deep Vigi. Courage isn't that great as I said, sweeps are already free with hybrid and on bosses without cleave so are quite a few of your bladestorms.

If blade barrier was better then yes, deep Defense might be worth it.

I do skip Tiers 6 and 7 Defense - at least till they are improved. Unremitting is too good to pass up for PvP. So technically, I am playing a hybrid.
You are forgetting that you also miss out efficiency talents without getting a whole lot in return. Commanding Awe is just not worth losing Courage and Shield Specialization (which you can still get with Protector - although just barely. For Overhead strike you *will* have to lose points in those talents).

In PvP, yes it's worth it, ten times over.

Courage sucks if you are using it wrong. And I don't see myself charging by cooldown in bossfights.

Effluence is the only thing remotely worth it in Tier 4 Vigilance, and Protector is the only thing that's worth it in Tier 5. But I have to sacrifice whole Tier 5 Defense to get them. Instant Stasis is also a guaranteed (unless broken with a CC-break, I think) instant-cast, thus uninterruptable, 3 Focus gain, during which you can Sunder. Overhead Slash is also worth mentioning - but it's a DPS talent. And I have yet to encounter single target aggro issues.

For PvE, I'd actually think about, because, depending on the encounter, reliable 20% to damage reduction on Guardian Leaps can be useful. For PvP, however, no thanks. I'll have my boatloads of CC any day. Locking down the enemy in a nice, long, juicy chain stops 100% damage\healing. You also get a bonus of almost hearing them rage and scream as they get slaughtered.

I like the Guardian class... it is harder work than , well, all the others I've played so far but that doesn't mean it's not fun. I just wish that it was a little more viable in PvP situations (I play on a PvP server) when you get jumped when you're on your own, because right now you're dead meat 99% of the time (if the other guy is a ranged class, 80% of the time if it's a melee DPS). It doesn't matter how long you live, the outcome is always the same, assuming the other guy doesn't screw up. You just can't hold them down long enough to hurt them.

It depends if you have Doc or not. A BH jumped me when I was fighting a few mobs and after running away from the mob (I was at like 20% hp left), I popped my cooldowns and destroyed the BH. All of that thanks to Doc who kept me alive.

Level 34 - haven't quite completed Act I yet (overlevelled from running Flashpoints with friends) - alas, even a Taral V lightsabre won't save you from an asswhuppin'

I said it before and I'll say it again. Courage is not worth it purely for the Bladestorm reduction (Force sweep is free in both specs, although 100% with Hybrid).

The question lies in if you prefer the 4% damage reduction from Awe or the 4% shield chance from Shield spec. Based on what I've seen so far and on some pretty basic math I prefer the former. However you don't have to go that far to play as a Hybrid.

For PvP, Overhead is excellent. For PvE, it's also excellent. Stasis is cool in PvP but with the amount of CC going around and everyone having Resolve and CC breaks I don't find that I need it or benefit from it all that much.

Improved Guardian Leap is the best thing you get for PvP sir.

6 seconds of what is practically complete negation of any spike damage, on command, every minute, is absolutely fantastic. Against premades it is the best tool you get in any of your skill trees. On the encounters in PvE where it works it is even better.

Locking someone down with your stuns works without improved Stasis as long as you don't rely completely on it, you simply time it right and let your teammates deal the damage. While the initial stun with Leap is naturally useful there's enough CC to go around and thus doesn't outweigh the bonuses from Vigi.

If it was the choice between what you have described, then yes, definitely. But you seem to be forgetting about the entire Tier 5 Defense.

Except it's unnecessary. An extra damaging move won't make or break your game as a tank. Improved CC, however, can.

Plus, Hilt Strike has 2.0 threat modifier in Soresu. Excellent for solidifying initial aggro.

I can definitely see its use in PuG-based PvP, were you're basically fighting for your life in all the chaos. In a premade, coordinated CC is king. Old Arena habit from WoW. Strangely enough, works perfectly in ToR.

Instant stun>channeled stun. It unties your hands in a dynamic PvP situation. You get interrupted, stun ends. You need to do something else urgently (like kicking a healer in the face), stun ends.

You appear to keep thinking of those abilities as isolated things. Yeah, instant stasis alone isn't worth speccing into Tier5 Defense. Except it all adds up. To a great effect.

You use CC to be able to burst a target down without interruption. With Guardian leap on your side that doesn't happen to you despite enemy CC.
As do you when you compare it to the high end Vigi stuff. The "great effect" of deep Vigi adds up to more than the deep Defense stuff. Especially for PvE.

We can just agree to disagree.

Last time I checked, Guardian Leap, even talented, does not break CC. You also have defensive cooldowns for a reason. Unremitting also grants damage resistance. And I can use CC to prevent damage on both, myself and my team-mates.
Even combined together, all you get over Defense is a moderate increase of burst damage and minor to moderate situational survivability.


But yeah, we can definitely agree to disagree. It's all in the playstyle, and I personally prefer to have as much CC as humanly (zabrakly, twi'lek-ly) possible.

No it does not break CC, it stops enemy spikes and without a purge there's nothing they can do about it.