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"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.23.2011 , 09:05 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by -kobie- View Post
...

seriously?

OK, Obi-Wan Kenobi says "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," a statement which is an absolute. Hence, Obi-Wan Kenobi is either being highly contradictory or highly hypocritical. Or, the third and most likely option, George Lucas doesn't have a clue how to write dialogue.
I get the statement, what I don't get is what he is being contradicting about.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

-kobie-'s Avatar


-kobie-
12.23.2011 , 09:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
I get the statement, what I don't get is what he is being contradicting about.
He's being contradictory about the idea that ONLY SITH DEAL IN ABSOLUTES. Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Jedi, not a Sith, and he apparently deals in absolutes too. I cannot make this any more clear.
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Bielduwyn's Avatar


Bielduwyn
12.23.2011 , 09:28 PM | #13
This dialogue was written by George Lucas, it's not exactly worth discussing.

Joshmaul's Avatar


Joshmaul
12.23.2011 , 09:51 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by -kobie- View Post
He's being contradictory about the idea that ONLY SITH DEAL IN ABSOLUTES. Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Jedi, not a Sith, and he apparently deals in absolutes too. I cannot make this any more clear.
You're trying to have a debate with a guy who wants werewolf Jedi.
Darth Joshmaul
"Because at the end of the day...I'm the one holding the friggin' lightsaber, pal."

Durzaka's Avatar


Durzaka
12.23.2011 , 09:55 PM | #15
Forum threads like this piss me off.

This was discussed to death, then discussed for another 100,000 miles.

it's done. Everyone knows its a ****** line. Think for 2 seconds it makes no sense, but it sounds good for the split second it appears.

The PT was terrible, it doesnt need to keep being mentioned.

Reminds of Nar Shaddaa general chat last night, some ******e just kept bring up the stupid contested **** about starwars like The force isn't balanced, there needs to be dark side to balanced, blah blah blah.

The only reason to mention topics like this is to spark an argument.
Durzaka Retribution

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.23.2011 , 09:59 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Joshmaul View Post
You're trying to have a debate with a guy who wants werewolf Jedi.
No...if you actually read my whole thread on it, you'll see that they don't need to be playable species but rather just be NPCs because apparently every other species is. And I am so sorry that I don't look deeper meaning into some lines.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Venan's Avatar


Venan
12.24.2011 , 03:43 AM | #17
*heavy sigh*


The ONLY way I can justify this line is that it was MEANT to be ironic, it was MEANT to showcase that the Jedi were blind and, thus, of course fell. Here's an order which claims that only the Sith look at things in a black and white manner, and yet the Order itself looks at everything in a black and white manner, especially matters of love. The Order was doomed to fail because of this, and Obi-Wan as one of the embodiments of this Order shows it.

Read the novelization of RotS (it's infinitely better than the film). A great moment plays out while Yoda is battling Palpatine, in which he makes a revelation that the Jedi Order was doomed to fail because they were so locked into their old ways. This is why he flees; to preserve that realization and have a chance to start anew. This would ALSO explain why Original Yoda seems to teach different values to Luke than Prequel Yoda would.



It's still not perfect, like the whole "Do or Do Not" thing, but it's the only thing that gives Lucas even a SMIDGEN of credit.

Not that he deserves it.
Jai-Ko Venan ::: :::
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the-algebraist's Avatar


the-algebraist
12.24.2011 , 05:22 AM | #18
I see this debate a lot, and it makes me really quite sad.

A large part of the English language is in leaving implicit information out of dialogue because its unrequited. Obi Wan and Vader's exchange on that planet was about choosing a side, morality, and righteousness.

He was in NO WAY stating that 'only' the Sith deal in 'Absolutes' for everything. He was meaning that it was the Sith position, not the Jedi position that you were an ally or an enemy. That there was a 'right' way to do anything. The Sith believe that the power of the darkside is absolute and incontrovertible, but the Jedi believe in a living, changing force and that the only true power is in a balance of both.

He was implying that although he could not agree with Vaders point of view, he still (barely) held some love and affection for him - which was subsequently let go when he realised how far Vader had really fallen.

The statement makes perfect sense, unless read on its own as a standalone statement to the universe. And in those circumstances Obi Wan would of course never have said it.

What you have done is essentially as follows:

"Where are you going?

"The shops."

"The shops what?"

"I'm going to the shops..."

"Well why didn't you say?"

"Uh, I did."

You've completely pretended the context didn't exist.
It's not living that counts, it's living rightly.

Swordy's Avatar


Swordy
12.24.2011 , 06:44 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by -kobie- View Post
...

seriously?

OK, Obi-Wan Kenobi says "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," a statement which is an absolute. Hence, Obi-Wan Kenobi is either being highly contradictory or highly hypocritical. Or, the third and most likely option, George Lucas doesn't have a clue how to write dialogue.
This is the exact point that Lucas was making. There are no REAL good or bad guys in the Jedi/Sith war, there are just guys with differing viewpoints on the same thing and are casting each other as the "wrong" ones.

Hiddenronin's Avatar


Hiddenronin
12.24.2011 , 06:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by the-algebraist View Post
I see this debate a lot, and it makes me really quite sad.

A large part of the English language is in leaving implicit information out of dialogue because its unrequited. Obi Wan and Vader's exchange on that planet was about choosing a side, morality, and righteousness.

He was in NO WAY stating that 'only' the Sith deal in 'Absolutes' for everything. He was meaning that it was the Sith position, not the Jedi position that you were an ally or an enemy. That there was a 'right' way to do anything. The Sith believe that the power of the darkside is absolute and incontrovertible, but the Jedi believe in a living, changing force and that the only true power is in a balance of both.

He was implying that although he could not agree with Vaders point of view, he still (barely) held some love and affection for him - which was subsequently let go when he realised how far Vader had really fallen.

The statement makes perfect sense, unless read on its own as a standalone statement to the universe. And in those circumstances Obi Wan would of course never have said it.

What you have done is essentially as follows:

"Where are you going?

"The shops."

"The shops what?"

"I'm going to the shops..."

"Well why didn't you say?"

"Uh, I did."

You've completely pretended the context didn't exist.
That has to be the most eloquent way I have ever seen it explained. That's for this.