ETA on Advanced Class change?

You need to go read all 399 pages.. That isn't what a lot of people are asking for.. Most want to change their AC just like they can change spec..

Besides.. If they allow it once at say level 10... You have to know the forum would be flooded with the same people in this thread wanting another swap or a removal of all restrictions.. You would be a fool to think it would end there..

Nobody knows what permanent means now, what makes you think they would know later??

But see that is the rub.. I don't see AC swapping as an additional level of functionality.. I see it as enabling laziness.. I don't see it as more flexibility.. If you don't enjoy leveling then don't play an MMO.. If you don't like football then don't play a football game.. If you don't like racing then don't play a racing game.. If you don't like leveling then don't play an MMO.. No MMO should have to change the way it is played to accommodate someone's desire not to level.. It is what you do in an MMO.. It is what you do in THIS MMO.. Nobody said you had to make any alts.. But if you are, then you are going to have to level them.. If you want to play another class then you are going to have to roll an alt.. That is how you play an MMO.. That is what an MMO is..

Allowing people to bypass leveling has a huge impact on player quality.. We don't need any former sage healers going shadow and then trying to tank.. Or visa versa.. And it isn't just tanking and healing.. It is a basic knowledge of the class.. Spec and rotation.. Knowing what the procs do and what gets them to proc.. Knowing the cool downs.. I'm sorry.. I am not going to tolerate someone on a learning curve because they were to lazy to roll another character... That is what the leveling process is for.. It teaches you how to play that class.. So yes it will effect me.. It will effect everyone...

Let's be clear.. Sage and Shadow are two separate classes.. They share the same story.. They are both consulars.. But they are separate classes.. One doesn't play anything like the other.. I know because I have both.. A gunslinger and a Scoundrel are separate classes.. Yes they share the same story and they are both smugglers.. But they are separate classes.. One doesn't play anything like the other.. Again, I know.. I have both..

No AC swapping doesn't allow someone to skip leveling a character of the same class.. You just don't know what a class is... At least not in this game.. I is totally lame to say that our class is Jedi or Consular, or Smuggler.. That is not our class.. Nobody plays as a Jedi, or a Consular, or a Smuggler.. They don't have skill trees.. The skill trees come with the AC.. That is your class.. You can call Jedi and the rest your Root class or something.. Or just class and then advance class.. But we play as our advance class.. You are just arguing over semantics.. Fussing over a name and not looking at content.. I know why Bioware did it this way. Because originally they wanted 16 classes in the game.. That was the original plan.. But the game was getting big with the stories, and 16 stories would be to big and to expensive.. So they decided on 8 stories.. So they came up with the idea that we have now.. 8 root classes and 16 advance classes.. That doesn't change the fact that our AC for all sense and purpose is our class.. It is what we play as.. It is what has the skill trees..

Now you are just trolling me. It's obvious that i'm not talking about advanced classes not being separate classes. Are a shadow and an assassin two separate classes? Or a sage and a sorcerer?
There are just 8 classes in this game, period. Thus, arguably, 24 specs, if you count the shared ones for each class (which is a wrong thing to do, but still).

Sorry... There are 16 so says Bioware.. You do not have the authority to make any kind of judgement on this topic.. Period..

This is Bioware's game and they said there is 16 classes.. You are going to have to live with that..

In WOW the Mage and Warlock are pretty much identical in every way.. Except one has pets and the other doesn't.. Their skills are pretty much the same except different graphic and names.. One uses an ice bolt and one has a shadow bolt.. It has always been joked that the Warlock was a fire mage.. Both use mana, both are ranged DPS casters, both wear cloth armor, both use the same stats.. Both are different classes.. Priests are also very close to mage and Warlocks.. Again all 3 are separate classes.. We don't get to decide what is or isn't a class..

Your point simply isn't valid.. We don't get to decide what is or what isn't... All you are doing is attempting to make an argument that is for the most part is irrelevant.. There is no governing body that defines what a class is or isn't.. Blizzard defines a Warlock and a Mage as separate classes, even though they are about 95% exactly the same.. The remaining 5% is the Warlocks pets, and the graphical difference between skills.. Also that some skills come in a different order..

Bioware says a shadow and an assassin are different classes.. Case closed.. There is nothing we can say to argue that point.. It is their game.. When you program your own game you can decide what is or isn't a class.. Until then you have to live with what Bioware says.. That is just the way it is.. And for the argument about AC swapping.. Completely irrelevant... You are still ignoring the simple fact that the game says our choices are permanent.. And discussion here is pretty much moot because of that simple fact..

The shared ones are really irrelevant.. But again I do understand the reason Bioaware did it.. First it sort of linked the two classes to their common heritage.. Second, it also meant that they didn't have to come up with as many talent trees.. The shared tree meant 16 less specs..

I never said that the devs treated each AC differently STORY WISE, just that they treated them as a full CLASS within each (story line), that the devs have said that they see AC's as DIFFERENT CLASSES and that the devs have said that they are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS.

hmmm... still no link...

As for "the devs have said that they see AC's as DIFFERENT CLASSES and that the devs have said that they are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS", (even though there is still no link), I agree completely with that thought. I don't think anyone has yet to disagree with it.

But think about it...
The Mercenary plays differently from the PowerTech, however they are both Bounty Hunters.
The Shadow plays differently from the Sage, however they are both Consulars.
The Operative plays differently from the Sniper, however they are both Imperial Agents.
The Sentinel plays differently from the Guardian, however they are both Jedi Knights.
The... I could go on, but you get the idea...

Now that you're thinking about that, think a little more and realize that the base class is much more of the Advanced Class than you want to admit...
The Trooper at 55 has 22 abilities whereas the Vanguard at 55 has about 15 (with some of them changing depending on the Skill Tree in use).
The Bounty Hunter at 55 has 22 abilities whereas the Mercenary at 55 has about 17 (with some of them changing depending on the Skill Tree in use).
The Sith Warrior at 50 has 19 abilities whereas the Juggernaut at 50 has about 15 (with some of them changing depending on the Skill Tree in use).
The Jedi Knight at 55 has 19 abilities whereas the Sentinel at 55 has about 16 (with some of them changing depending on the Skill Tree in use).
Again... I could go on...

Add to this the fact that their are 8 class stories in this game and that those stories are tied to the BASE CLASS (it makes no difference what you chose as your Advanced Class the story is the same).

Do you begin to get an inkling as to why so many feel that being able to change the Advanced Class is not a big deal? Many feel that they shouldn't have to play through the entire EXACT SAME STORY, loosing access to gear, titles, lore entries, etc., that they already have on a character of that exact same base class.

Reading your posts, I guess you don't... to you all of those that don't think like you are too lazy, too greedy, too entitled, too undeserving... it is kind of sad to see you spending so much effort on this when it really isn't a big deal.

I'm super excited to start switching AC classes. I have a couple of toons that I'm waiting to do this with right now.

First, go back and read the last 400 pages. Those quotes and links have been provided multiple times.

Second, there are many people in this very thread trying to convince themselves and the rest of us that they only want to change "spec" and not their class by trying to convince us that AC's are "only specs".

Your point is? By your own admission, none of the AC's play the same.

Powertechs and mercenaries share the bounty hunter story line.
Guardians and sentinels share the jedi knight story line.
Operatives and snipers share the imperial agent story line.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Story line does NOT make the class. If it did, my GW2 ranger would be the same class as my son's engineer.

How does a trooper go from 22 abilities without an AC but "lose those" abilities when he chooses his AC as vanguard? Are you saying that a vanguard has different skills than a trooper or a commando? That would lead me to believe that they were <GASP> DIFFERENT CLASSES, not the same class. That is, of course, unless I had a vested interest in them being seen as the same class, such as the desire to change from one class to another.

Yes. The story line is the same for the two AC's (classes). As I and others have said, if BW had set things up a little differently, this "discussion" would not be happening. At character creation they could have had the player choose his faction, then STORY LINE and shown us what two "classes" each story line could choose.

They could even issue a definitive statement now.


Actually I do get that. If you would go back and read the entire thread, you would see that I have made a few suggestions as to what I would consider a good compromise that would allow those players who have unique and no longer obtainable items on a given character to play the other AC while at the same time addressing the very real and reasonable concerns of those against class changes. My suggestions are among those repeatedly posted by LordArtemis. I'm not sure which numbers off the top off my head.

BTW, if it really isn't a big deal, then go level that new class. With all the XP boosts, and the double XP weekend coming up, I'm sure you'll have no trouble leveling that new class.

But then, class changes are ALWAYS a big deal. It doesn't matter whether you are against them, or are one of those who would like to change their class.

Yeah I agree, and it's nonsense too. I've played other MMOs where you started with a base class and then picked your spec class after you finished a starter area. It was this way in DAoC, and it was a permanent choice, irrevocable, and if you wanted a different spec class.. then you rolled a new character...end of discussion.

This modern era of lazy players who want everything handed to them is getting pretty ridiculous IMO. Want a new AC.. roll a new character. This game is designed to facilitate fast leveling of characters, NOT resetting your AC because you are having a bad hair day.