ETA on Advanced Class change?

Agreed, that's the problem.

But in defense of AC respecs, I wouldn't be against swtor trying to be its own thing instead of mirroring WoW for the sake of being familiar to a wider audience.

It's a topic worth exploring.

The problem with that is, using your numbers.. 11X3 is 33 specs.. SWTOR has 16 classes with 3 specs, 1 shared.. Not counting the shared.. 16X2 is 32.. Only a loss of 1 spec.. Counting the shared because they are in fact specs.. There are 48 specs in this game.. 15 more than in WOW..

Again, there is no reason for AC respec'ing..

People want to change AC because WOW allows you to have characters that can both tank and heal just by changing your spec.. This game does not, and that is exactly why AC swapping shouldn't be allowed..

Nobody needs to have a toon that can go from tank to heals just by changing their spec.. We do not need classes that can literally do it all..

Honestly, there is nothing to fix.. All this talk about changing specs and swapping AC's.. One would have to wonder why game makers even worry about level, spec, or class.. It seems all people want is a character that can do it all in any situation.. It would sure make balancing a lot easier.. Gear could just be for looks and looks only.. We could all. just have the same exact stats, with the same exact skills.. In the end, that is what people are arguing for..

The only reason we have this conversation is because Bioware gave us about 10 levels to try out our characters before we selected our class.. If we chose our class during character creation at level 0... There would be no discussion about changing our class.. The fact that our class was chosen later, made it seem lest permanent to some.. At least that is why I think we have this discussion.. I am sure that in WOW if you spent a time as just a caster or conjurer or something and then had a choice to be a Mage or a Warlock, there would be people asking to be allowed to swap.. WOW doesn't give people that choice.. You are one or the other.. You do not become one or the other..

The other issue is that I find it truly sad how people don't want to live with a choice they made.. Instead of rolling another character, they are going to demand that Bioware change the game.. I find that sad..

Part of what makes our characters different is the fact that not all can do the same thing.. Not all have the same skills.. Some can heal and others can tank.. To me, that is how it should be..

Spec changes are already in SWTOR, for free if you are a subscriber, available to do nearly anywhere if you pay for 'Field Respecialisation'. No one is asking for 'Tank' and 'Heal' trees to be put in the same Advanced Class.

Agreed, and once again that's not what the majority of pro-AC swap are asking for. They are asking for the opportunity to change their AC after selection at level 10. Some would get more function out of it as they level some at end game. You still wouldn't have a class that can do it al you would have exactly the same range of abilities on Advanced Classes that already exist.

Again, and this is a point you seem reluctant to take on board. No one is asking for an Advanced Class that can do it all. They are asking for the option to play one AC or the other at one particular time. The only thing that changes is they don't have to level up a second character they can remain on the original. The AC swap should of course carry some sort of cost.
Advanced Classes allow players a choice of role, roles are necessary for a developer to set difficulty and realistic challenges (hence the trinity of Tank/Heal/DPS), AC swap does not obviate this distinction as the individual ACs do not get the ability to do it all at the same time but are still only ever one or the other.

I find it sad that there are people that don't want a game to offer an additional level of functionality and flexibility for those gamers that don't enjoy levelling or have limited time to play but more disposable income. The only impact of AC swapping is that it allows a player to bypass levelling another character of the same class, with regards to game mechanics it has no impact what so ever.

And it still would be, the make up of Advanced Classes and their skill trees would remain unchanged.
Taking your last statement to its logical conclusion you obviously must be against the ability to change Skill Trees as well. In MMOs your character really isn't different from anyone else playing the same spec and there are enough people playing to make sure you are never 'unique'. That sort of uniqueness only comes from the appearance options you select be it species, tattoos, hair or armour style (I'd like to see more flexibility on weapons used) and those are defined by Class rather than Advanced Class.

Spec changes are in SWTOR, class changes are not. No one is asking for tank and heal skills to be put into the same AC, but people are asking to be able to tank AND heal on the SAME CHARACTER, something the devs intended NOT to happen. They intentionally designed the A's (classes) so that no SINGLE CHARACTER could tank and heal, at any time, not just at the same time. Allowing AC changes would negate this design intent.

Let's look at that highlighted portion. You, along with others, have spent so much time telling me that I and the devs are wrong and AC's are NOT classes, they are only "specs", yet you claim that there still wouldn't be a class that could do it all if they allowed AC changes. How can that be if AC's are only "specs" and not classes into and of themselves? If you claim that bounty hunter is the class and powertech (tank, DPS)/mercenary (heal/DPS) are just "specs" then allowing AC change would give one class (bounty hunter) the ability to do it all, something you claim would not happen. Your own words tell me that you KNOW and understand that AC's are different classes.

People are asking to be able to "do it all" with a SINGLE CHARACTER, though. This is something the devs do not want. They intentionally designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank AND heal, not just at the same time, but at ANY time. Players still have the option to fill any role they choose IF they level a class that perform that role. If a player wants to tank, they need to level a tanking class, not level a DPS only class, and clamor to be able to change class at end game to "be more flexible".

I highlighted the key phrase there--BYPASS LEVELING.

I find it sad that so many people want to try to hide their aversion to the effort of actually leveling (EARNING) that new class behind excuses such as "leveling is boring", "I hate questing", "I have limited time to play", etc. I find it sad that so many want to just put their hand out and expect what they want to "magically appear".


"How can I have that other class without actually having to level it"? I know, I can call it an AC swap and claim it is not a class change and offer to throw a little money at BW so I can BUY a max level character of that new class.

Interesting. You said the devs said that story wise the advanced classes were treated differently, as a FULL CLASS. I stated my doubts about that because the base class story is the same independant of the advanced class being played (if one was even chosen!!!!). You provide me with a GENERIC quote that DOES NOT have a link to the ORIGINAL post and then use that to validate what you have already said about the stories being different depending on the advanced class.

Riiiiigghhhhht. Reach for straws much? Or are you willing to link to the original post where you quoted from so that I can read what was said IN THE CONTEXT it was said in?

Uhm, you are kidding, right? Tell me that you are kidding, please. If not... 16 classes, really? And 48 specs? No, you must be kidding.

I find it sad at just how much time and effort you have put into this one thread over something that would still not affect you if other players did it. Chances are that half the people on your server could switch to a different AC right now and unless you see them everyday and know their names you wouldn't even realize it.

People are also acting like people are going to be switching from tank to healer on a whim which we all know wouldn't be the case, because if they ever did something like this it would realistically cost a decent amount of Cartel Coins or a big sum of in game credits which people aren't going to be doing every day unless they just have money to blow. Also who is to say you can do it whenever you want? Who says it won't take any "work", it could be done in many different ways to allow players to "earn" it. There could be a time limit from the amount of time you change. Then after you already do that you have to spend time getting all different gear unless you are going from dps to dps.

Also when you go to character creation, after you choose allegiance the next thing it says to do is SELECT CLASS, so if I pick Jedi Knight that is my class according to what character creation has just told me. Regardless of which AC I pick later, half my skills, my story, my voice, my companions will all be JEDI KNIGHT. If I changed my AC all of those things would still be JEDI KNIGHT which is the class I selected when I made the character. Respecing my AC would essentially allow me to change half my skills and 2 trees, that's all. I still don't think you can truly call Guardian and Sentinel two independent classes when they share half the same skills, a whole tree, and the same energy resource. Many of the arguments against this would be fantastic IF people were completely trying to change class, but nobody is.

No actually I am not.. This game has 16 classes.. A shadow and a sage are two separate classes.. You can disagree with that all you want.. Bioware has stated that they treat our AC as our class.. Are classes are no different than say a class in WOW.. I can't really say that now.. WOW doesn't have skill trees anymore..

The math is sound.. You can figure it out for yourself.. I consider each tree as a spec.. That is 3 specs per class.. 16 times 3 is 48.. The math doesn't lie..

Do you know how much of a fallacy that argument is.. It won't effect someone.. If Bioware allows AC swapping it effects us all.. And if you don't understand how, then perhaps you should read this thread.. That point has only been explained countless times..

What I find sad is how many times the pro AC swapping crowed simply ignore the arguments and points brought up by other people.. How sad it is that over half the community and Bioware are completely ignored.. How sad the obvious is completely ignored.. It almost seems like the people that want AC swapping are off living in their own little reality..

Bioware put in the game an extra NPC for the specific purpose of giving us the player an additional warning that our choice on our AC was permanent and would never change.. We then heard the same warning again from the trainer that actually grants our selection.. That seems to be a lot of work from a company that supposedly said they were going to add it.. Seems to me some of you need to learn what a soft no is.. It is called, tell the customer anything he wants to hear, but don't promise him anything.. 'AC swapping is on the list of things to do, but no ETA on when it will happen." Sound familiar?? NO ETA.. Meaning not in this century..

AC swapping will most likely never happen and there is a lot of people that will be happy with that.. WOW never allowed it either.. Class changing is just not something that should be allowed.. And yes it is class changing.. The claim that it isn't is just a lame attempt to marginalize our class so that swapping doesn't seem so bad.. What you didn't think someone could see through that argument??

And now this argument that it doesn't effect me or anyone else.. Who cares?? That doesn't make it right nor is that a reason to do anything.. You know a god mode button wouldn't effect you if you didn't use it.. AC swapping will create loot issues, as people will have more specs to roll on.. We will have sages rolling on tank stuff.. Gunslingers rolling on healing stuff.. Don't tell me it isn't going to effect me.. How many morons do I have to put up with that don't know their character in a flashpoint or an OP?? Part of leveling is learning your class..

If you don't want to play the game that is fine.. Please do not ask for something that will ruin it.. Bioware said during the beta that they didn't want a single character to be able to both tank and heal.. And if you look at how tanks and healers are divided up.. That is exactly how it is.. Allowing AC swapping will pretty much undo that desire.. On that alone, I doubt AC swapping will ever happen.. There is a good reason not to allow a single character to both tank and heal..

So then you are saying that AC swapping is useless then?? Come on!! Nobody ever said they wanted tank and heals in the same tree..

What I said was, people want to be able to both tank and heal with on character.. They can do it in WOW.. AC swapping is required for a single character to both tank and heal.. Which is what I said in the first place.. Nobody is talking about spec changes.. For wow it is a spec change.. For here it is not.. I am sure you knew that..