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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 04:15 PM | #3921
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
And two of those roles are the same for both ACs, for every class. Yet more evidence that ACs are not classes.
With the exception of guardian/juggernaut and sentinel/marauder, none of the AC's share a role.

Operative/scoundrel is heal/MELEE DPS while sniper/gunslinger is RANGED DPS.
Shadow/assassin is tank/MELEE DPS and sage/sorcerer is heals/RANGED DPS.
Powertech/vanguard is tank/MELEE DPS and mercenary/commando is heal/RANGED DPS.

While both may be DPS, ranged DPS is a different role than melee DPS.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 04:35 PM | #3922
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
With the exception of guardian/juggernaut and sentinel/marauder, none of the AC's share a role.
Seriously? Every AC has two DPS specs. Maybe you need to review the AC roles and the spec trees again. When filling roles for a group, there is no distinction made between "RDPS" and "MDPS."

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 04:47 PM | #3923
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
Seriously? Every AC has two DPS specs. Maybe you need to review the AC roles and the spec trees again. When filling roles for a group, there is no distinction made between "RDPS" and "MDPS."
The group finder tool may not make a distinction, but the players in the groups do make a distinction, especially in OPS.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 04:50 PM | #3924
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
The group finder tool may not make a distinction, but the players in the groups do make a distinction, especially in OPS.
If you want to make the claim that AC's are not different classes since they both have a DPS spec, EVERY class in WoW has a DPS spec. Does that mean that all WoW classes are the same?

Savej's Avatar


Savej
11.21.2013 , 04:59 PM | #3925
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Since WoW has NO companions, there can be NO shared companions in WoW.

WoW has no weapon mods. Do rogues and monks hav shared weapons? Yes. Do monks and druids have shared weapons? Yes. Do mages and warlocks have shared weapons? Yes.

Do mages and warlocks share the same armor? Yes. Do druids, monks and rogues have shared armors? Yes.

Can a warlock train in mage skills? No. When you go to your trainer in SWTOR, can you train in ANY skills for the other AC (class)? No.

Do mages and warlocks share the same stats? Yes. Do druids, monks, and rogues have shared stats? Yes.
Wow does have two classes (arguably 3 or maybe more) with companions. They're called pets in Wow. I think the new expansion is adding some for warriors and maybe other classes, not sure...
Weapon mods are basically the weapon. You don't need to go hunting or pay comms for a new weapon in swtor as you would flipping from warrior to druid in wow. My point is that switching from p-tech to merc requires 1(out of 12-ish slots) to change. You have to do as much or more gear switching warrior or druid specs in wow than you do switching from p-tech to merc. Heck, you have to change more going from dps pt to tank pt than you do going from merc to dps pt. The gear between the acs is all but the same. You and others bring it up but it's really not an AC distinction, it's a Base Class one.

As for my list of "what makes a class a real class", sure you can cherry pick lines from it and say warlocks and mages share some things (like stats) but they don't share most of the things on my list or nearly as much as any particular AC pair in SWTOR does (different races, companions/pets/minions, trainers, 0 shared spells/abilities, diff stories/quests, etc). At no point did I say any one or two similarities makes the classes as interchangeable as acs are here, but the combination of so many of them... Try to look at the big picture: ACs are much closer to specs or sub-classes than they are full classes if you look at how the word "class" is used in other games, regardless of your dev quote stating intents. If you look at this game, switching Acs is a much smaller change than switching full classes is. Using "class" and "advanced class" interchangeably, for this argument, amounts to being deliberately disingenuous. Combined with the trollish responses i've seen here from you today (including the above) I don't know if you really believe or possibly know what you're posting.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 05:11 PM | #3926
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
Wow does have two classes (arguably 3 or maybe more) with companions. They're called pets in Wow. I think the new expansion is adding some for warriors and maybe other classes, not sure...
Weapon mods are basically the weapon. You don't need to go hunting or pay comms for a new weapon in swtor as you would flipping from warrior to druid in wow. My point is that switching from p-tech to merc requires 1(out of 12-ish slots) to change. You have to do as much or more gear switching warrior or druid specs in wow than you do switching from p-tech to merc. Heck, you have to change more going from dps pt to tank pt than you do going from merc to dps pt. The gear between the acs is all but the same. You and others bring it up but it's really not an AC distinction, it's a Base Class one.

As for my list of "what makes a class a real class", sure you can cherry pick lines from it and say warlocks and mages share some things (like stats) but they don't share most of the things on my list or nearly as much as any particular AC pair in SWTOR does (different races, companions/pets/minions, trainers, 0 shared spells/abilities, diff stories/quests, etc). At no point did I say any one or two similarities makes the classes as interchangeable as acs are here, but the combination of so many of them... Try to look at the big picture: ACs are much closer to specs or sub-classes than they are full classes if you look at how the word "class" is used in other games, regardless of your dev quote stating intents. If you look at this game, switching Acs is a much smaller change than switching full classes is. Using "class" and "advanced class" interchangeably, for this argument, amounts to being deliberately disingenuous. Combined with the trollish responses i've seen here from you today (including the above) I don't know if you really believe or possibly know what you're posting.

Tell that to the guardian who wants to become a sentinel, or vice versa.

Adaptive gear lessens the effect of this, but does not change the fact that one is heavy armor and one is medium armor.

One is heavy armor and one is medium armor, but we're supposed to believe that they are the same class simply because actually admitting that they are different classes would pretty much completely shut these threads down.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
11.21.2013 , 05:29 PM | #3927
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Tell that to the guardian who wants to become a sentinel, or vice versa.

Adaptive gear lessens the effect of this, but does not change the fact that one is heavy armor and one is medium armor.

One is heavy armor and one is medium armor, but we're supposed to believe that they are the same class simply because actually admitting that they are different classes would pretty much completely shut these threads down.
Really a moot point.

Changing specialisation from a DPS role to Tank role requires a new set of mods. Players are not going to pay the additional cost of stripping out the DPS mods and putting in new Tank mods each and every time they want to switch roles. They go out and get a new set of gear, one for the DPS mods and one for the Tank mods.

Switching from Juggernaut/Guardian to Marauder/Sentinel, or vice versa would require no more than the same outlay, even less if you have the foresight to but your mods in adaptive armour types.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 05:40 PM | #3928
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Really a moot point.

Changing specialisation from a DPS role to Tank role requires a new set of mods. Players are not going to pay the additional cost of stripping out the DPS mods and putting in new Tank mods each and every time they want to switch roles. They go out and get a new set of gear, one for the DPS mods and one for the Tank mods.

Switching from Juggernaut/Guardian to Marauder/Sentinel, or vice versa would require no more than the same outlay, even less if you have the foresight to but your mods in adaptive armour types.
Yes, currently it really is a moot point as you CANNOT change your class. The devs have so far chosen not to allow class changing in any form, limited or otherwise. They have, however, left the mechanic in place allowing a player to experience the other AC (class) in a given story line. It's called "level that AC (class)".

If, on the other hand, the devs do decide, at some point, to cater to the "have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd and allow class changes, no matter how limited, then things like different armor types between classes becomes a definite consideration, as do things such as weapons and offhand items.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 07:32 PM | #3929
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Yes, currently it really is a moot point as you CANNOT change your class.
That is irrelevant to the discussion, since no one is asking for class change.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
11.21.2013 , 07:41 PM | #3930
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
If, on the other hand, the devs do decide, at some point, to cater to the "have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd and allow class changes, no matter how limited, then things like different armor types between classes becomes a definite consideration, as do things such as weapons and offhand items.
No it doesn't, or at least no more than it currently is within the ability to respec. And it still isn't a class change, it's an Advanced class change.

The one Advanced Class that different armour types exists for Juggernaut/Guardian (heavy) to Marauder/Sentinel (medium) is no different in scope to the disparity between a Powertech Tank (Mods Endurance/Shield/Absorption/Defence Rating, offhand Shield Generator) and a Powertech DPS (Mods Aim/Accuracy/Power/Crit/Surge, offhand Power Generator). In fact, as stated before, if adaptive armour was equipped the Juggernaut/Guardian would have little to no need to requip their main set just their off hand.

The need to consider equipment in this discussion is a non-issue as the demands are already there when considering changing roles by respeccing.