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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 03:15 PM | #3901
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Too bad the devs make the rules for "your" game. Unless you play on a private server, that is.
And too bad for you that "the devs" can make AC change a reality if they so choose, no matter how much you hate the idea.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 03:16 PM | #3902
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Here is what I would be asking the pro AC change folks, only to prove that ACs do not feel like classes.

I would ask...
1) Do you believe a player should be able to change their base class (Trooper, Smuggler, BH, Inquisitor, Warrior, Knight, Agent, Consular)?
2) If you do not, why not? What is it about the base class that you believe makes it a permanent choice, if that is what you believe?
Already covered: the storyline. Same as gender and faction change. Probably way too technically complex go be worth the bother.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 03:18 PM | #3903
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Calling something a class is not a rule. It is a title. A title that devs may grant an item or feature.

For instance, devs could call each spec a class, or say they view each spec as a class. That does not make it a class. That makes it how they view the spec.

Players determine what is defined as a class and a spec in a game IMO. Not the devs. It is all based on how it feels. And in this respect I believe the original design failed to provide a real "class" feeling to ACs. This is something they can fix IMO.

Calling an apple an orange does not make it an orange...even if I sell apples.
Again, this is where we disagree. The players may "feel" that what the devs have determined to be a class, even if the devs are not as clear about stating this as they should be. The player's "feelings" that the class is "not" a class do NOT trump the dev's definition of class, though. The players do NOT write the rules or set the mechanics of the game. That is done by the devs, even if the players wish the devs would change the game to suit their desires.

Like you, I would like to see the devs actually stick their head into this almost 400 page thread and make 2 statements.

1. I would like to see them make a definitive statement as to whether your AC is a "Class" or a 'spec".

2. i would like to see then indicate whether or not changing AC's is still on the "wall of crazy".

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.21.2013 , 03:19 PM | #3904
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
Already covered: the storyline. Same as gender and faction change. Probably way too technically complex go be worth the bother.
So, if it was a Powertech or Mercenary story instead would that define those choices as a class? In other words, if the storyline was directly tied to either one of those choices.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 03:19 PM | #3905
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
And too bad for you that "the devs" can make AC change a reality if they so choose, no matter how much you hate the idea.
And too bad for you that they have still NOT chosen to do so, no matter how much people beg them to allow it.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 03:22 PM | #3906
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
And too bad for you that they have still NOT chosen to do so, no matter how much people beg them to allow it.
I'm fine with things as they are. If I weren't, I wouldn't be here. Allowing AC change would be a way to improve the game, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it either way. Unlike you, it seems.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.21.2013 , 03:22 PM | #3907
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Again, this is where we disagree. The players may "feel" that what the devs have determined to be a class, even if the devs are not as clear about stating this as they should be. The player's "feelings" that the class is "not" a class do NOT trump the dev's definition of class, though. The players do NOT write the rules or set the mechanics of the game. That is done by the devs, even if the players wish the devs would change the game to suit their desires.

Like you, I would like to see the devs actually stick their head into this almost 400 page thread and make 2 statements.

1. I would like to see them make a definitive statement as to whether your AC is a "Class" or a 'spec".

2. i would like to see then indicate whether or not changing AC's is still on the "wall of crazy".
I don't necessarily disagree with your point entirely, but I would point out that they devs do not pay for the game...the players do.

How the players view the game is vastly more important than how the devs view the game...case in point...the games original state at launch and the stampede that followed. The devs were stuck on their vision, and players were stuck on "out the exit".

That is why I say dev definitions, desires, design intents and the like mean next to nothing. The player defines the game, not the dev.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
11.21.2013 , 03:23 PM | #3908
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
So, if it was a Powertech or Mercenary story instead would that define those choices as a class? In other words, if the storyline was directly tied to either one of those choices.
I doubt that a few changes would make a difference, although I may be wrong.

I think most of those desiring AC (class) change would require a completely different story, with different companions in order to admit they are different classes. Hopefully I am wrong on this, though.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 03:26 PM | #3909
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
So, if it was a Powertech or Mercenary story instead would that define those choices as a class? In other words, if the storyline was directly tied to either one of those choices.
The storyline is strongly tied to gender, faction and class. The story is a very important part of TOR. If Merc and PT had different stories then AC change would be as hard to to as class change would be now. Either it's good for the game or it's not. That's the only consideration. "TOR can't do it because WoW doesn't do it" is no argument any more than "TOR should do it because Hypothetical MMO X does it" is an argument.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
11.21.2013 , 03:28 PM | #3910
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I think most of those desiring AC (class) change would require a completely different story, with different companions in order to admit they are different classes. Hopefully I am wrong on this, though.
Not having ~50% of skills and abilities (all base class skills plus 1 spec tree) in common would go a long way towards being able to say "ACs are different classes."

Take all that together (companions, story line, base class skills and 1 spec tree) and the conclusion is that ACs are not different classes.