ETA on Advanced Class change?

The main plot of the class story is the same, but in general it's not identical. You can play your sorc as a bad guy and your sin as a good guy and this will affect the story in a certain way.

Despite that, i agree that the need of going through the same story if you want to try out a different advanced class of the same faction is not the best design i've ever seen, but it's the design we have.

What you're actually asking for is to simplify the process of trying new, which would come with the cost of sacrificing a great deal of class customization.

No single character would be able to fill all 3 roles without most likely paying for an expensive AC swap. You are basing your argument on the faulty premise that AC swap would be "click a button, magically switch ACs, little to no CC cost."

Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with AC. That's the player's choice.

But it's not the design we have to have.

Thankfully the devs have NOT changed their stance on class changes to date

so it IS the design with we have to work.

Their last stance was that it is likely to happen.

And BWEA will make the final call on AC change. Nothing you or I say in this thread will make the slightest bit of difference.

As I have said before, they did say that AC changes would "likely happen" EVENTUALLY.

The devs have stated several times that AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs, and that they (the devs) see them as DIFFERENT classes. Most MMO's do NOT allow class changes.

The devs stated that they were considering allowing AC changing and allowing species changes and that these would "likely happen eventually". There was NO time frame given for the implementation of either one, nor did this quote say that either one WOULD happen.

I agree that the devs could have made it clearer that the AC's were classes and done it differently. Ideally, they could have made it clear at creation by having players choose their story and telling them into which classes each story could evolve, once a player hits level 10. They have made it clearer, although not as clear as it could be, by giving players more information at creation as to what roles each AC can fill, whether the class is melee or ranged, etc.

Where you and I disagree is that the devs are the ones who set the rules and get to decide what is and is not a class, not the players. The players may "want" to see the AC's as simply a spec, but "wanting" something does not make it so.

To date, those statements regarding AC's being seen as different classes and fundamentally different class designs have not been reversed, even when considering the later quote regarding AC swapping "likely" happening at some undetermined point in the future. We're closing in on 400 pages in this thread and still not one word, or even a peep, from the devs. What does that say to you?

Then your opposition makes even less sense.

They are not fundamentally different classes. That will never be true no matter how many times you say it. Both ACs share the entire set of base class skills and as others have pointed out, one spec tree.

You keep bringing up "species change." That is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. But if it were relevant, the fact that they said it was likely to happen and eventually did happen lends credence to the notion that because they said AC change was likely to happen, it eventually will, since they have already implemented something they said was likely to happen.

For whatever reason, you simply do not like the idea of class change. OK for you. No need to control how others play.

So, the Species Change and Barber Shop mentioned in the Dulfy interview from months ago are finally realities. That's a good sign! It means the devs are actually serious about their "Yeah, we'd like to do that" statements.

In that same interview, it was mentioned that Advanced Class changes were also on the table and likely to happen. I'm curious if the community team can update us on whether there's any time-table for when this will be implemented.

Ideally, I'd love it to be a switch you can unlock, then flip any time — finally allowing me to Tank & Heal with one character.

But in reality I'm sure it will cost like 6000 Cartel Coins to unlock it, then another 2000 Cartel Coins every time you switch (discounted 3.2% for subscribers, of course) with a 2 month cooldown. Oh well, what can you do? As a start, I'd be happy just to have the option in-game, in any form.

So! Does BioWare have any upcoming plans for this that can be shared with us?

~~~

Edit: While I am proud of how much you are feeding the Dark Side with your blind anger and hate, and vehement vows of impossibility, let me remind you of (source):


We got the Species part. That makes the AC part also have a lot of credibility.

So anyway, any ETA or news, community team?

We do disagree on that, and I have stated the reasons why...they have said many times things were set in stone that turned out to be nothing but hot air IMO. But that does not mean your wrong...just that we disagree on that point.

As to the lack of a statement, I personally hope that means they passed on the idea, which I think would be a wise move. I would rather they do MORE to make ACs feel like classes, and though I try to be fair in my discussion and neutral in the list I provide I am personally against AC change.

So to me no comment makes me hopeful that they have decided against it.

I would like to point out, however, that you keep driving home the point that the devs have said that "AC is your class" or "AC is a class", though they have actually said neither...you can INFER that from comments they have made. I think it's pretty obvious that many folks that are pushing for AC change do not agree, so reiterating that point over and over serves no purpose IMO.

It would be better to argue the change on it's merits and pitfalls instead of semantics from my perspective.

This is what they have actually said. This is not verbatum, but it is accurate.

1) They wanted to do 16 classes but did not have the time or money to do so.
2) Your advanced class is your role, career, specialized career or specialization.
3) Your AC choice is permanent.
4) The main goal of the advanced class system is to allow players to customize their characters according to their playing style.
5) [W]e wanted to ensure that we had the flexibility to support several play-styles within each of these eight classes. So we built Advanced Classes into the game from the ground up to provide us with the ability to create and support different gameplay and roles inside each class
6) They see ACs as fundamentally different class designs...they have never to my knowledge directly labeled AC as a class, though they have inferred this in many interviews.

Some links

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes - no mention of advanced classes as class.
http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=13 - advanced classes are not even labeled, and sit inside class forums as sub forums.

Your class choice determines your story, your companions, etc. Your AC chooses the skill sets you will have access to and the advanced abilities.

This very clearly, IMO, demonstrates the problem here....Bioware has an apple and is calling it an orange, or better yet inferring it is an orange. When you constantly call AC a "role", "specialization", "playstyle choice", "career", "design" instead of simply calling it your class you can create confusion. When you do not list ACs as classes in the holonet or on the forum, this can create confusion.

When you do not link your storyline or companions to your AC, instead attaching a set of skill trees and perhaps some gear, you create confusion.

IMO they have gone out of their way to be as vague as possible when it comes to ACs. They obviously do not want to directly label it as a class.

I contend the evidence clearly shows they see them as similar to classes, but not full fledged classes. This is a result of bad design.