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ETA on Advanced Class change?

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ETA on Advanced Class change?
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
11.18.2013 , 01:52 PM | #3751
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
So, in playing a new spec you will obviously have to get a grasp on how the abilities work together to perform well, regardless of being the same AC or not. From there it's a matter of how familiar you are. Would it be easier to master Immortal from Vengeance with 3 new abilities or Carnage from Vengeance with 2 new abilities plus the entire list of Marauder specific abilities.
Right...players would probably need to learn how to best play their new skills...how does that differ from anything we have today? It doesn't...AC swap doesn't complicate anything any more than already happens.
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Jadescythe
11.18.2013 , 02:06 PM | #3752
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Right...players would probably need to learn how to best play their new skills...how does that differ from anything we have today? It doesn't...AC swap doesn't complicate anything any more than already happens.
And at this point in the game, I don't doubt most players could easily swap and go, provided they had the gear. I have like 8 55s, it's not hard for me to swap classes. But the ACs play different enough that you could not swap from one to another and play any of the specs easily without prior knowledge. The sheer number of abilities in my last post is proof of that. Not to mention things like range changes between 2 classes.

I'm sure there are many players with the experience to use this all to their advantage, but I think there would be an overabundance of "I just swapped ACs and don't know what I"m doing" people in both PvE and PvP. I think the differences are large enough to warrant the requirement to level your character up separately because while Marauder and Juggernaut are fairly similar overall, Sorcerer and Assassin are completely different. If we are going to allow people to swap between the two, then we might as well let them swap to any class they want.
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LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.18.2013 , 02:32 PM | #3753
You do not learn to play your advanced class by leveling IMO. You learn to play the AC at endgame.

AC plays completely different when you take on endgame play. That is the reason why you have so many bads running end game content...you have to relearn your class. Gear is different, rotations are different, tactics are different.

Leveling in an AC helps a little bit, but casual PVE leveling and endgame PVE are two different animals.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
11.18.2013 , 02:43 PM | #3754
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
And at this point in the game, I don't doubt most players could easily swap and go, provided they had the gear. I have like 8 55s, it's not hard for me to swap classes. But the ACs play different enough that you could not swap from one to another and play any of the specs easily without prior knowledge. The sheer number of abilities in my last post is proof of that. Not to mention things like range changes between 2 classes.

I'm sure there are many players with the experience to use this all to their advantage, but I think there would be an overabundance of "I just swapped ACs and don't know what I"m doing" people in both PvE and PvP. I think the differences are large enough to warrant the requirement to level your character up separately because while Marauder and Juggernaut are fairly similar overall, Sorcerer and Assassin are completely different. If we are going to allow people to swap between the two, then we might as well let them swap to any class they want.
You act like they have massive differences...first off, they DON'T! Despite your best scare tactics, there are only like 3 or 4 skills my Vanguard uses vs. my Commando, the balance are shared skills. All Classes even share a skill tree, that's how minimal the differences are.

Also, even if someone didn't know how to tank, who the hell cares???? Big deal. They'll either learn (like every other tank did) or they'll switch to DPS or back to whatever they were or they'll quit the game like 2+ million other people have. WHO CARES what they do? Are you that nosy that you truly give a **** what AC "I" opt to play??? Why would you care? How does MY choice of AC impact you at ALL? It doesn't. If I want to switch to tanking because my guild lost all their tanks for whatever reason, who are you to think I shouldn't be allowed to? I firmly believe that the people most prone to using this will be players who are either burnt out on whatever AC they are, or players who will do it because they're trying to fill a void by the continual turn-over MMOs all face.

If my guild finds itself with a shortage of tanks, who are you to care if we swap AC's to fill the shortage? Would you prefer 7-8 players quit the game? If I get to 55 on my Sage and decide it's not for me, why do you care if I switch to Shadow? I'm all about people finding reasons to STAY in this game...if you wanna swap from Commando to Vanguard because it's FOTM, who gives a ****? Not me. Go for it!!! Enjoy it. The "metrics" will show the AC change and Bioware will react swiftly and accordingly like they've done in the past (pure sarcasm)...it beats playing a dead profession while Bioware decides to not do anything...if it makes you happy, be whatever you want (AC).

And swapping CLASSES is 100% different than what we're talking about. Swapping Classes IS a bigger deal - swapping ACs is a NON-ISSUE. With AC, it's the EXACT same story. EXACT same companions. EXACT same class missions. EXACT same Class skills. Stop pretending they're drastically different.
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TUXs
11.18.2013 , 02:45 PM | #3755
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
You do not learn to play your advanced class by leveling IMO. You learn to play the AC at endgame.

AC plays completely different when you take on endgame play. That is the reason why you have so many bads running end game content...you have to relearn your class. Gear is different, rotations are different, tactics are different.

Leveling in an AC helps a little bit, but casual PVE leveling and endgame PVE are two different animals.
THIS!!!! ^^^ Entirely true!
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Trollokdamus's Avatar


Trollokdamus
11.18.2013 , 02:51 PM | #3756
"Advanced classes" is just a different name for the actual classes. An option to change a class of an existing character? No thank you, i'm against that notion in any game i've played and will always be.

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
And swapping CLASSES is 100% different than what we're talking about. Swapping Classes IS a bigger deal - swapping ACs is a NON-ISSUE. With AC, it's the EXACT same story. EXACT same companions. EXACT same class missions. EXACT same Class skills. Stop pretending they're drastically different.
So you are saying that an option to swap from a traditional caster to a stealthy melee fighter is a non-issue? I have to disagree.

NSStember's Avatar


NSStember
11.18.2013 , 02:59 PM | #3757
Changing your AC is very different than a complete class change for one very basic reason... Story. Two things determine your story arc; main class and gender. Changing your AC won't effect this at all, but change your basic class and it would break your story.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.18.2013 , 03:04 PM | #3758
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You act like they have massive differences...first off, they DON'T! Despite your best scare tactics, there are only like 3 or 4 skills my Vanguard uses vs. my Commando, the balance are shared skills. All Classes even share a skill tree, that's how minimal the differences are.

Also, even if someone didn't know how to tank, who the hell cares???? Big deal. They'll either learn (like every other tank did) or they'll switch to DPS or back to whatever they were or they'll quit the game like 2+ million other people have. WHO CARES what they do? Are you that nosy that you truly give a **** what AC "I" opt to play??? Why would you care? How does MY choice of AC impact you at ALL? It doesn't. If I want to switch to tanking because my guild lost all their tanks for whatever reason, who are you to think I shouldn't be allowed to? I firmly believe that the people most prone to using this will be players who are either burnt out on whatever AC they are, or players who will do it because they're trying to fill a void by the continual turn-over MMOs all face.

If my guild finds itself with a shortage of tanks, who are you to care if we swap AC's to fill the shortage? Would you prefer 7-8 players quit the game? If I get to 55 on my Sage and decide it's not for me, why do you care if I switch to Shadow? I'm all about people finding reasons to STAY in this game...if you wanna swap from Commando to Vanguard because it's FOTM, who gives a ****? Not me. Go for it!!! Enjoy it. The "metrics" will show the AC change and Bioware will react swiftly and accordingly like they've done in the past (pure sarcasm)...it beats playing a dead profession while Bioware decides to not do anything...if it makes you happy, be whatever you want (AC).

And swapping CLASSES is 100% different than what we're talking about. Swapping Classes IS a bigger deal - swapping ACs is a NON-ISSUE. With AC, it's the EXACT same story. EXACT same companions. EXACT same class missions. EXACT same Class skills. Stop pretending they're drastically different.
So my point is, if we don't care that 2 ACs are nothing alike, but you can swap between them, why not just allow people to swap whenever? Level to 55 and then go with whatever class you feel like playing at the time. One Pub, one Imp.

Shared trees have common abilities, but a lot of fillers that make a huge difference in play style. Take Rage for example. It performs very differently on Marauder as compared to Juggernaut. Why? Because I can build shockwave much easier with no build up on my Juggernaut, but I'm going to die in 5 seconds without the DCDs of the Marauder.

Sure, there's no difference between 30m range and 10m range, they share some abilities so go ahead and switch between them. They don't really serve the same function in any way, shape, or form, but you were both inquisitors at one time, so let's do it.

There is no reason to say that a Sorcerer is more like an Assassin than a Sniper. So it comes down to why there are classes in the first place. There are games out right now that let you have one character and use any role you choose, so if we're wanting to just give instant access to ACs, why not just let you swap at any time? What's the reasoning that an AC change within class is ok, but to another class it's not. Storyline isn't a problem since that won't be getting used any longer.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
11.18.2013 , 03:07 PM | #3759
Quote: Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
So you are saying that an option to swap from a traditional caster to a stealthy melee fighter is a non-issue? I have to disagree.
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. I believe people will learn their new "skills" in an acceptable manner and it's not up to me to babysit them and tell them how "I" feel they should learn their skills. It's a non-issue. People WILL learn new ACs as well as they learn new classes.

I haven't been on my Sage in over month...if I needed to use her to heal (she's pure DPS just like when I leveled her), how is that any different than swapping AC from Vanguard to Commando healer? I'd need to learn to heal either way.
All warfare is based on deception • If his forces are united, separate them • If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near • A leader leads by example not by force
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Zunayson
11.18.2013 , 03:09 PM | #3760
Quote: Originally Posted by Neglience View Post
devs also said they are doing an ilum revamp
devs...
devs...

they talk a lot
that was the gree event
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box
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