ETA on Advanced Class change?

What if they simply made all mechanics independent of class? My mercenary already force chokes and force lightnings when he uses his heroic moment, so it can hardly be argued as immersion breaking if a person plays through the bounty hunter or operative storyline while wielding a lightsaber and using force powers.

faulty FAULTY logic.

do you know why there is no gender change? becasue there are too many flags attached to gender, how companions respond to you, how npc's respond to you, you get options on one gender you don't on the other - both ways.
there are even more flags attached to base class story.
you cannot compare AC change that affects NONE OF THOSE FLAGS to changing from merc to sniper that affects every single one of those flags. its like comparing strawberries to shrimp and saying that they are the same, just becasue both are food.
the difference between AC's involves as many mechanics as the difference between specs. with exception of warrior/knight you even use the same armor. not that rating of the armor shell makes any difference, seeing as I've rolled on marauder pieces on my hugg with zero issues and the other way around, why? becasue stats on the modifications worked for either AC. I've also rolled on sniper rifles on my operative and shotguns on my gunslinger. why? because barrel is what mattered, not the shell.

but I digress.

in this game, your AC is coached as a training path. its not coached as a separate class, no matter how much you people want to believe otherwise.
its permanences is purely arbitrary. unlike gender or base class.

P.S. on legacy abilities. something you can use once every 20 minutes only with companion out and is most certainly NOT a core ability in any way, shape or form =/= that you are actually are capable of using the force on a non force character. I'm going to check out descriptions later, but I'm fairly sure they actually make them sound more neutral anyways

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that the devs are on record as saying that the AC's are DIFFERENT classes? Players may choose not to see them as different classes, but the devs do see them as different classes.

A class change is a class change, whether that be changing from mercenary to powertech or changing from mercenary to sniper.

Ok, looks like it's time since we are on to the valid/invalid reason roulette wheel again.

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 3

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 4

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 9

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

Option 10

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 11

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet or at terminal on ship - 1 Week cooldown - Single use Consumable purchased from Cartel Market for 1,000 CC (resalable on GTN).

Option 12

No AC change allowed.


And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.


PROS

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.
2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.
3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.
4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.
5. increasing choices and options.

CONS

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.
8) Development resources could be better spent elsewhere on more popular content.

Whatever, it is standard protocol in the biggest sub MMO in the world to be able to change the possible specs of your character. All the advanced class amounts to is a permanent spec. This design has zero lore value and was designed to create more grind. After you have the one mission revolving around the choice, it means nothing in the story. I love this game, but this feature is crap. I say let us have the ability to add both advanced classes for credits or CCs and have a button to change specs, just like WoW... you know, the biggest competition on the planet.

Also, when we change specs, the system should remember our button layout. The field respect is annoying, having to redo buttons each time.

The only things I miss about WoW are changing specs and the wardrobe manager.

IMO they should have either had you choose your AC at character creation, choose class, then AC, or have the story different for each AC. They want folks to consider ACs separate classes but they treat them in the game like specializations.

That is why, to me, it is no surprise that we have requests to change AC. It is pretty rare, if ever, that I see actual class change requests. That is because classes are actually meaningful, whereas ACs are not.

You may think that AC simply amounts to a "permanent spec". The devs, however, see AC's as DIFFERENT CLASSES. Even WoW (you know, the biggest competition on the planet) doesn't let you change class.

The devs also saw visual progression as a "vital part of the SWTOR leveling experience" and reduced cooldowns on quick travel abilities as "a way to become detached from the world you live in".

What the devs see, IMO, means nothing. Both when they say AC is probably coming, and when they say they see AC as fundamentally different class designs. Both are meaningless.

Because it is actually PLAYERS that determine if those statements have merit. Not the devs. And it is the devs fault, IMO, that ACs are not considered classes by many folks (if this thread is any evidence)...because they were very poorly designed.

Had they designed them correctly this discussion would not exist.

Note that I did not add "because the devs see them as a class" to the list of cons. There is a reason for that.

I have not played 2 different ACs of the same base class. I assume they all use the same companions and storyline.

What I am stating is that the Companions and everything tied to them such as affection and storyline is something the developers would not have to completely recode from the ground up if they implemented AC changes.

I do not care that the developers call different AC's "classes". We all know they are different classes, but for this thread we are differentiating between base classes such as Jedi Knight and Bounty Hunters as "Classes" and Advanced Classes such as Jedi Sentinal & Jedi Guardian and Powertech & Mercenary as "ACs".

If you completely missed that point reading this whole thread I apologize for not making this clear from the start. I know it is easy to get confused.

Case in point. Had ACs been designed properly players would not consider them a "role" or "playing preference".

As they are designed now many folks it seems consider them roles, not classes. As long as the designs remain in the poor state they are currently in IMO this will continue to be a problem.

I can call an orange an apple all day and it will not make it so for many folks I would expect...even if I grow and sell the oranges.