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Why are their no macro's again?

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
11.13.2013 , 01:37 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLeeloo View Post
Most of my mmo time has been spent with games that had macro systems. It was a normal thing to do. On the same level of convenience and customization as changing settings, changing your UI, keybinding, etc. All this anti-macro talk is interesting. I haven't seen that often.
Using lead-gasoline to reduce engine bumping was standard for half a century and nobody thought anything of it either. Just because it was standard for other past things doesn't make it good.

Also you can argue optional all you want.

Taking operative healers into ranked is "optional" as well, but you are gimping yourself to bring other healers even though both can heal. Same with macros. You don't have to use them, but your just disadvantaging yourself by not using them.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

GreenLantern's Avatar


GreenLantern
11.13.2013 , 01:38 PM | #102
I think I understand the OP and what he is trying to say. Allow me to translate.
*Clears throat*
I'm bad. I don't possess the skills to press multiple buttons at once. Please lower the games overall skill requirement to my level so that I am satisfied. Never mind that my solution to solving my own inefficiencies I have presented can easily be game breaking (I just can't fathom how, for as I have previously stated, I'm bad). Thank you all for your time.
*End Scene*

I think I really captured the essence of the post. I could be the next Ben Affleck or Nick Cage!
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Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
11.13.2013 , 01:47 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by JimG View Post
So combat macros don't give you a benefit? They don't make it so that you can do more things in combat than you'd be able to do with a keystrokes and a mouse?
No, they don't. have you not realized a global cooldown exists? If anything macros make timing WORSE because if you're off by too much then the next command simply won't fire (due to the GCD) which either eliminates the macro chain or simply throws everything out of sync.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
11.13.2013 , 01:51 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
If you want to risk banning by using hardware to circumvent the in game ability to "chain" multiple actions to a single keystroke, be my guest.
1) I never said I used them, I was offering the OP a solution to a problem. I know this is a rare thing on forums, but it happens from time to time.
2) Basic macros are allowed in pretty much all MMOs provided the actions can be reasonably mimicked by the player without them. Mouseover macros and two-click macros are almost universally allowed. Chains of 5-20 abilities and botting scripts are almost universally bannable offenses.
3) I appreciate you giving me your permission to do things
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
11.13.2013 , 01:56 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Froteus View Post
Using macros is less about player crutch or lack of skill, and more about circumventing bad design.
What 'bad design', exactly? GCDs? Multiple abilities? Abilities that depend on or benefit from others being active? None of these are bad design, they're intentional. Macros make repetitive actions simpler, no more and no less.

Macros pose a risk as much as they do a benefit. Yes, they can nail your 'reaction times' down to a millisecond but you still face issues with server lag and interrupts borking the chain. You face issues with trying to cast other abilities mid-chain during a GCD because the encounter took an unexpected turn. You face issues of predictability. Worst of all, longer macros make things very boring (in fact, macro use pretty much destroyed Rift for me, though it was my own fault).

If you NEED macros it IS a l2p issue. MMOs are so dumbed down these days it's pathetic. If you simply want them to make life a bit easier (or in the case of mouseover, slow down carpal tumnel) then yes, you have my support.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

captpickles's Avatar


captpickles
11.13.2013 , 02:00 PM | #106
I can hazard 1 guess.. like the whole chat-bubble debacle... adding a 'engine' to ''process macros'' would likely make the client side engine lag so much it would be unplayable.

because if macros would make money and up subs, **and macros would** .. it would be in the game already if it were feasible.

im guessing the engine cannot handle it.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
11.13.2013 , 02:10 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by captpickles View Post
I can hazard 1 guess.. like the whole chat-bubble debacle... adding a 'engine' to ''process macros'' would likely make the client side engine lag so much it would be unplayable.

because if macros would make money and up subs, **and macros would** .. it would be in the game already if it were feasible.

im guessing the engine cannot handle it.
Good guess actually.
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HoloTweed's Avatar


HoloTweed
11.13.2013 , 02:16 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Nikkalos View Post
Again, macro's are optional and very opinionated. If you think your better without macro's then simply state it to yourself and move on. Say something that explains why other players shouldn't have them, or leave the thread. Otherwise I will just report you for harassment.
Here's the simple reason: macros should not be allowed because it gives an advantage to people who know (or want) to use them. If someone else doesn't know how to make one, he is now disadvantaged.

And before you anyone rushes to say "They can look it up!" - they shouldn't HAVE to. It should not be up to a player to research some element that is not part of the basic way the game operates in order to not be disadvantaged.

So the guy wanting to string together three keystrokes on one macro would gain an unfair advantage over anyone unfamiliar, unable or unwilling to create macros and figure out which macros should do what for the most intelligent usage.

It's just this simple.

Oteefo's Avatar


Oteefo
11.13.2013 , 02:31 PM | #109
"Again?"

I've never been aware of macros in this game since launch......
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CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.13.2013 , 02:34 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowrouge View Post
Not sure your understanding. I don't need third party software running in the game to use my macros. My G15 Logitech keyboard does all my Macros for me. Paired with my Naga razor mouse {of which there is a SWTOR version} and I have 66 keys to tie abilitys too. If you need third party software to Macro with you should not be playing.
That's exactly the thing. Hardware macros are still macros and they are still against the Terms of Service. Bioware has clearly stated that if you chain queue abilities to one button in any way or shape or form, be that with third-party software or expensive hardware, you are violating the ToS. Three activated skills (even skills not on the GCD) require either three button pushes, three clicks or a combination thereof. So pressing a button on your mouse or keyboard to activate three defensive cooldowns simultaneously is considered cheating. (Any action that gives you an advantage in violation of the ToS is cheating.)

But at the same time that Bioware is also marketing (and presumably taking cuts of the profit) these expensive hardware through a cross-promotion with Razer. People who invest hundreds of dollars into advanced computer accessories do so because they want the advantages they bring, not in the least the option to use macros to simplify their gaming. (And not because of all the shiny LED lights on them) And then they're told that they're violating the ToS if they're using said advanced features.

So it's a very awkward situation. On one hand they encourage you to spend piles of money on expensive mice and keyboards, but on the other they forbid you from using some of the features that distinguish said hardware from 10 buck junk mice.

Will they take action against hardware macros? Presumably, no. My friend has been using every concievable type of macro such paraphernalia can offer as well as mouse-over healing (he used to be a hardcore WoW player) since day one and he's as happy as ever. Bioware is yet to crack down on him for having played in violation of ToS for close to two years. They, presumably, never will.

But nevertheless the option remains. Macros on Razers, Nostromos and G-series keyboards are in violation of ToS. Can they detect ability chaining and mouse-over healing? Yes. Do they have the grounds for banning you for doing so? Yes. Will they actually do it? Not likely.
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