The (Un)Official PVP venting thread.

Thanks for your willingness to consider another perspective. Pretty good job with the profile as well. There are absolutely some PvPers who refuse to be satisfied with anything other than a win (+their name at the top of the medal board). I am not one of those players. I learned a long time ago that I'm not going to win all the time, and by choosing a sniper as a primary I'm unlikely to top the medalboard (aside: if you have tanks and healers that understand coordinated play, your DPS team members SHOULD be topping the damage board...that's the point of DPS). I simply take issue with losing stupid (using your earlier example, like someone solo capping a pylon then running off to smash things).

I also have a hard time imagining why anyone wouldn't want to be good at PvP. For me, it's so much more interesting and nuanced than PvE--every WZ is unique. In the start area, you have no idea of the outcome. Something I've noticed in unranked recently is that tactics are actually (finally) evolving. For instance, in NC you can no longer assume an extended opening at the Southern node. Plenty of teams are feinting South while splitting their initial focus East and West, looking to suprise and hold instead of grinding. That's the kind of interesting development you just don't see in PvE. Whether or not that's because pugs stopped showing up I can't say; but, it's the sort of thing that keeps me coming back for more.

Anyway, thanks again!

^^ Well said, both of you. I've been on the fence in trying to figure out which of you two I agreed with more, but I think you both raise excellent points. I've historically been the casual gamer who has done PvP as a hobby (always badly, until recently, and still not great) but I've been wanting to get into PvP a lot more going forward.

There definitely do seem to be some barriers to entry, though, into the hardcore PvP arena, and not all of them come from the game.

Funny you should mention that. I've been noticing that as well, and assumed that was a mistake on the part of overeager noobs who just wanted to smash things. My intuitive response to the splitting up like that would be the thought that we'd be guaranteed to lose south and east would be retaken fairly quickly, leading to a loss.

I take it, though, that this actually is a good tactic? (I'm seriously asking here, by the way; not trying to be sarcastic, as I honestly don't know).

Changing the subject...players in Huttball who insist on throwing the ball to me (a sniper). For those of you who don't know, snipers play defense in huttball. We are not geared to move with the ball.

I have to point out, that your assumption - that everyone who isn't competitive in pvp likes pve - is wrong, at least as long as we are talking about me. I also think, that if we compare things like operations and flashpoints to warzones, warzones are much more interesting. I'd rather be good at pvp than good at endgame pve (or lowbie flashpoints).
But.

There's one thing in pve that I put before everything else in the game and the main reason I even play this, and that's the stories. Class stories and companion storylines, mainly, but many other storylines can be interesting, too. And endgame seems to have very little stories to offer, at least without gear grinding (looking at you, operations!). So, I spend most of my time leveling, and a lot of that time in lowbies.
Saying that I don't want to be good in pvp isn't exactly true. I do want to develop as a player, but I think there's more than just learning your rotation or gearing your character in pvp. I believe that even if the match was totally uneven, you can still learn from it. And if you don't, there will be another match, and I don't think it's something worth getting upset about.


Anyway, at least in Red Eclipse, the arenas seemed to wake up the good players in endgame pvp - as in a week before arenas, there were warzones where top damage was something like 400k, but after it, you started to see those 600k - 1 million high damage numbers pretty often.

It's a good question. I'll give you my opinion, understanding that I am in no way claiming to be a SWTOR WZ tactical expert.

I was going to start with the pithy "there are no bad tactics", but that's untrue. There are some things you might try that just will not work against a skilled opponent. However, for the most part, the right question to ask is whether the tactic fits the situation. "Feint South" seems to be a useful tactic in NC *right now* because pretty much everyone is still conditioned to grind at the Southern node. If you've got the right class mix, and your opponent does what they've always done (i.e., "Mass South"), you can be pretty confident of gaining the element of surprise and the victory.

Eventually, smart players will catch onto the new tactic, and countertactics will be implemented. You make the best tactical choices you can to fit the situation, and hope for the best. This cat and mouse is exactly what fascinates me about PvP, and especially PvP in SWTOR. BW has done a pretty good job implementing a format where you benefit from making good tactical choices.

EDIT: when i say "right class mix", this tactic works best if you've got an Operative with Infiltrate. You want to give the clear impression the bulk of your team is headed South, and your Operative was just slow to mask your move. Once Infiltrate is cast, a couple of players (2 tanks preferably) hit the Southern node hard while a 5-player team sprints past to the opposing side node (as usual, you're going to send a single player to take and hold your own side node). If all goes according to plan, you're 5v1 at the opposing side node. Once opposing side is taken, your tanks disengage from South to shore up your own side node. I prefer to keep 5 on the opposing side node instead of 4 and 4, because your opponents immediate reaction is most often going to be to reclaim their own side node.

Like I said above, eventually smart players will catch on and devise countermeasures.

The trick to all of this is to keep counting. You may or may not be able to hold both side nodes for the entire match, although I find it easier than holding a side and South (BW designed the side nodes with better perimeter defenses than South). If you see that you've got 6-7 opponents dropping onto their side node and it looks unlikely you'll hold, it's time to beat a strategic retreat and hit them at South.

The biggest mistake n00bs make in objective-based WZs is not attacking in force. They'll dribble into a position one player at a time, kicking off a revolving door to the respawn. By the time they've arrived "in strength" at a specific node, they're generally too far behind in points to win the game. Even for a single-covered node, I want to send in at least three players (if the goal is to take it). This is because I expect that the minute they see us coming, they're going to be calling for reinforcements. I want to get the cover player ded and the node taken as quickly as possible, so my teammates can turn around and get into defensive positions. If we just need a distraction to pull opponents off another objective, I'd send in less.

Anyway, hope this helps.

I hear you on all counts. I got a kick out of levelling my sniper to 55, even tho I rushed thru it. From what I've heard from others, I hear it's one of the better storylines in SWTOR. My sentinel alt is the toon that I'm levelling (at a more reasonable pace) with my son.

I think arenas are a great addition to PvP, and will continue to get better as people figure out how to play them. I started out HATING tatooine because the opportunities to find cover at distance are nil. Now, I'm actually starting to enjoy it more because it forced me to lose the "lazy sniper" habit (too much acting like a stationary turret) and learn how to move effectively.

I do think it was a TERRIBLE decision on BW's part to drop 8v8 from the ranked queues. There should be variety on the ranked side, just like unranked, so careerists that happen to like the format have an option to unranked.

You understood nothing.

I'm back, Got jumped on by a deception sin, Died instantly. Reminded me of launch operatives. I need a new keyboard.

Actually, I think you'd be surprised how much I understood, even if I don't have a 137 IQ.