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Sorcerer Changes Brainstorming

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Sorcerer Changes Brainstorming
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orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.06.2013 , 07:31 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by Orderken View Post
Is your intention eliminating entirely resource management for healers in PVP? I don't support this. Though balancing would be simpler after removing this aspect of the game, I'd instead modify resource management for Operative healers so that it requires attention and skill like it does for Sorcerer or Mercenary healers.

PVP aside, this change would be unacceptable for PVE. Even now force management is less significant a factor than it should be for Sorcerer healers in PVE. Eliminating it as a skill or regulator for our output risks trivializing PVE healing for Sorcerers.
no, my intention was to offer something because i know new abilities won't be added anytime soon. pvp heal sorcs don't have the luxury of other raid healers or predictable tank/raid damage.

i'm one of the few who don't think op healers are OP. instead, they should improve the quality of mercs and sorcs so that they have the tools to heal multiple targets, especially while taking a beating. really, both of the other healers need new abilities which i have highlighted in both class threads.

i understand your point though and didn't consider how it would trivialize pve. unless they buff heal sorc dcd's and passive armor/defense, i'm not sure what else to do about consumption

Darth-Gorog's Avatar


Darth-Gorog
11.06.2013 , 08:46 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
Madness needs better force management, it needs to be good to the point where off-healing for that tree is a possibility. If you don't want that class to be able to have enough force for off-heals then treat that tree as a pure dps tree. Currently, even bubbling your teammates in a prolonged fight means you might put yourself in a position where you will become force starved and completely inefficient for a period of time. Lightning Strike should have its cost lowered in Madness to properly become a part of the rotation, as the tree talents infer.

Fadeout/Egress for all 3 trees.
Madness' management is not as bad as you people keep saying it is, and as a dps you have no reason to off heal unless your healers are either sub-par or dead, in which case you aren't going to make much of a difference as the cast time for off heals is too long to help anyone and it is a massive loss to your own dps. same for static barrier, as a dps you shouldn't be using it at all except on yourself and one other person in emergencies, as it suffers the same problem as off heals, your static barrier isn't strong enough to be useful to in a dps tree and it is just more time you could spend dpsing, and if you are bubbling a large group of course that will drain your force, mainly because you shouldn't have to, leave that to the healers.

as for this fadeout business to me it just feels like an unnecessary thing people keep complaining about.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.06.2013 , 08:51 PM | #233
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Gorog View Post
Madness' management is not as bad as you people keep saying it is, and as a dps you have no reason to off heal unless your healers are either sub-par or dead, in which case you aren't going to make much of a difference as the cast time for off heals is too long to help anyone and it is a massive loss to your own dps. same for static barrier, as a dps you shouldn't be using it at all except on yourself and one other person in emergencies, as it suffers the same problem as off heals, your static barrier isn't strong enough to be useful to in a dps tree and it is just more time you could spend dpsing, and if you are bubbling a large group of course that will drain your force, mainly because you shouldn't have to, leave that to the healers.

as for this fadeout business to me it just feels like an unnecessary thing people keep complaining about.
i agree that the fadeout thing is useless but your whole paragraph tells all of us you don't pvp. a good sorc will always offheal and bubble people

crunchbarry's Avatar


crunchbarry
11.06.2013 , 08:57 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
What? Mobility doesn't matter? Unless you a tank and a healer like the ones featured in mudclot stream, this class is meant to be played by running. Face tanking is the wrong play to play it. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose when kiting, but if you face tank you will always be obliterated and come cry here in the forums.

Bottom line what you established is plain wrong.
yea', i suppose you're right. i'm not sure why i never thought of running before. aw, snap. l2p issue.

so i suppose that we shouldn't suggest any changes in this thread and just all l2p.

you heard it. sorcs are fine. all other classes are fine. game is balanced. l2p.

Gomex's Avatar


Gomex
11.06.2013 , 09:04 PM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
Yeah...I can agree with most of this. Still debating the healer management issue, but I'll leave that to people who play sorc healers who actually know what they're talking about, unlike the crit stacker.

But PvPrs need to understand that balancing around PvP, and arenas specifically, is just bad news all around. Every time PvPrs get something balanced for them, it breaks it in PvE. Hell, you guys are the reason for assassin tanks being totally revamped.

And, you -still- miss the point that sorcs are laughable damage in pve or pvp at best, and so easy to shut down it's not even funny. Stop letting sorcs free cast and you'll see. Now, ofcourse in 2.5 madness sorcs if full madness can make their dots uncureable. That's going to be a nice step. But that is a useless skill for PvE.

And, afaik...consumption takes no health with the stacks. Lets not make sorcs pure easy mode now.
Aka crit stacker? I have absolutely no idea where you got that from but ok nice insult I guess(I'm guessing you got it from not knowing about sorc heal proc mechanics). You're the one who has 2k+ on an alt sorc and actually have a perspective from every class in the game+a perspective playing against the best teams in this game on a sage healer amirite?

Good joke, keep swaying from my questions like which sorcs you talked to that makes your argument valid or name one pve team that has a winning record on a pvp server.

Hell why are you talking when you don't even know the mechanics to the class?

It's idiots like you that think dot protection is good for pvp when it's only nerfing sorc heals aka their own class

Darth-Gorog's Avatar


Darth-Gorog
11.06.2013 , 10:45 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
i agree that the fadeout thing is useless but your whole paragraph tells all of us you don't pvp. a good sorc will always offheal and bubble people
I do pvp a little but my heart will always be set on pve, and I would agree with bubbling (just only occasionally) but would still be iffy on the offheals, do it too frequently and I find I get targeted.

Darth-Gorog's Avatar


Darth-Gorog
11.06.2013 , 10:53 PM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by Gomex View Post
Aka crit stacker? I have absolutely no idea where you got that from but ok nice insult I guess(I'm guessing you got it from not knowing about sorc heal proc mechanics). You're the one who has 2k+ on an alt sorc and actually have a perspective from every class in the game+a perspective playing against the best teams in this game on a sage healer amirite?

Good joke, keep swaying from my questions like which sorcs you talked to that makes your argument valid or name one pve team that has a winning record on a pvp server.

Hell why are you talking when you don't even know the mechanics to the class?

It's idiots like you that think dot protection is good for pvp when it's only nerfing sorc heals aka their own class
what was your original point again, I think it got lost in your little contest to one-up that guy (took me a little while to think of a phrase that lacked inappropriate language. also just as an fyi he isn't going to be seeing that, he did the responsible thing and ignored you, otherwise I am sure you guys would have kept going, you strike me as the kind of person who doesn't know when to quit.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.07.2013 , 05:39 AM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Orderken View Post
Is your intention eliminating entirely resource management for healers in PVP? I don't support this. Though balancing would be simpler after removing this aspect of the game, I'd instead modify resource management for Operative healers so that it requires attention and skill like it does for Sorcerer or Mercenary healers.

PVP aside, this change would be unacceptable for PVE. Even now force management is less significant a factor than it should be for Sorcerer healers in PVE. Eliminating it as a skill or regulator for our output risks trivializing PVE healing for Sorcerers.
I think he means on a separate individual cd, so you can regain force while healing.

Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
11.07.2013 , 05:46 AM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
you just have to queue for some 4s and you will see your healing issues.

i'm not sure what you mean about sins...do you think their buffs are a bad thing? i'm sure people liked the self healing and feeling like a death knight for pve...but from what i understand, sin tanks were getting gibbed pretty easily no? in 4s, sins are very far behind and they needed these buffs. aside from turrican, who's the best sin in the game and already succeeding, i am interested to see how many other sins can make an impact.

lol like i said, go to twitch, type in mudclot in the search, and watch our streams. we run double madness or pyro merc/madness or lightning/arsenal. we do great damage and great burst. i like pvers because sorcs parse low which will inevitably lead to buffs, and then once me and mud are facerolling everyone, sorcs will get nerfed hard again.

uncleansable dots only hurts other sorcs who might have found a spot in a comp. our dots being dispelled is not an issue in 4s
Sorry, I forgot some people haven't played since launch. Assassin tanks have been nerfed nearly every patch since launch, (largely due to PvPrs...) and have been nerfed so much, that they're re-tooling the class altogether.

Though...not sure why you run madness if you want burst. You'd be far better with hybrid for that. You do miss out on the slow though. But, to each their own and it's a different conversation altogether now isn't it? lol.

Maybe they'll re-tool sorcs as well. Seems to be the only fix to them, as everyone claims their damage is fine but power management is horrible. Which...ugh...it's not lol.

As for the healing issue, I'd argue it's your own fault for bringing a pad healer in replacement of a quick healer. They're designed to be fluff healers. (why do you think Sins hate sorc healers? Because when we spike we don't want to have to wait for a sorc to heal us, when 2 other classes can do it on demand.) They still have their place, and it's what they were designed for. If people don't like it...re-roll, bring another healer, or argue for sorcs to be redesigned.

Anything else is a bit...silly. To want the best aoe / fluff healing -and- have the same responsiveness and mobility as a merc / op.
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Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
11.07.2013 , 06:19 AM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post

And, afaik...consumption takes no health with the stacks. Lets not make sorcs pure easy mode now.
What is this? Someone lock this guy from posting here.
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