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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?
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PeterTLJr's Avatar


PeterTLJr
10.24.2013 , 07:05 PM | #3331
This is the so-called con list?
1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.


1) Pure speculation...there has only been maybe dozen people who are completely against this judging by this thread. If it was a bad idea there would be more people against it.
2) People wanted it. It was a huge let down when it never happened. The whole class system was designed for AC changes.
3) Its not our fault if an AC is poorly designed. Why should someone have to redo everything because BW/EA cant fix an AC?
4) I agree maybe some restrictions, but in the end, its our character, if we want to change AC every day let us do it. (do not confuse that statement - its strictly meant for AC changing, whole class changing is another story)
5) Lighten up, its a game, if this is a con then I sure hope that you guys were fighting this hard against race changes because thats more extreme then AC changes.
6) They dont adjust classes that often to where FOTM would happen.
7) This would only apply to pug groups mostly, and when you pug you know the consequences. Even when doing FPs, you have the option of grouping with friends/guildys, or even finding people off general chat and make sure they arent new to that AC. This is completely avoidable.

Please let me know when you have an actual con list.
In order to appreciate the Light, you must spend time in the Darkness.
Peace will win and fear will lose.

Philmors's Avatar


Philmors
10.24.2013 , 08:13 PM | #3332
I don't mind it but it better be expensive as hell to dissuade constant AC changes unless you like throwing Bioware money for minor things.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
10.24.2013 , 08:44 PM | #3333
Quote: Originally Posted by astrobearx View Post
huh i find it funny that the same 4 ppl (well 3 now, but i assumed ratajack will smell the necro and jump in later) keep posting on this thread.
I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack.

Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
This is the so-called con list?
1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.


1) Pure speculation...there has only been maybe dozen people who are completely against this judging by this thread. If it was a bad idea there would be more people against it.
2) People wanted it. It was a huge let down when it never happened. The whole class system was designed for AC changes.
3) Its not our fault if an AC is poorly designed. Why should someone have to redo everything because BW/EA cant fix an AC?
4) I agree maybe some restrictions, but in the end, its our character, if we want to change AC every day let us do it. (do not confuse that statement - its strictly meant for AC changing, whole class changing is another story)
5) Lighten up, its a game, if this is a con then I sure hope that you guys were fighting this hard against race changes because thats more extreme then AC changes.
6) They dont adjust classes that often to where FOTM would happen.
7) This would only apply to pug groups mostly, and when you pug you know the consequences. Even when doing FPs, you have the option of grouping with friends/guildys, or even finding people off general chat and make sure they arent new to that AC. This is completely avoidable.

Please let me know when you have an actual con list.

First, let's try this again. For those with comprehension challenges, the devs have stated MULTIPLE TIMES that AC's are fundamentally different class designs, and they see them as different classes. That makes them different classes in the eyes of the devs, the only eyes that truly matter. Allowing AC changes, therefore, IS allowing CLASS changes.

Now let's look at your excuses.

1. The numbers of those for and against class changes are about even across the many threads regarding this hot topic.
2. This game was NOT designed around class changes. There were MANY more people during beta that were against class changes. This is evident from the fact that the devs chose to disallow class changes, something they would NOT have done had the majority wanted them.
3. Not all classes are designed equally and what is OP today may be nerfed tomorrow. Why should they allow you to change classes simply because the OP class you chose today gets nerfed tomorrow, or because you did not do any research and chose the underpowered class from the start?
4. Why should anyone be allowed to change their class willy-nilly.
5. First, race changes are COSMETIC only. They do NOT affect a character's fundamental game play mechanics. Class changes do affect a character's fundamental game play mechanics. There is a world of difference in those two types of changes. Second, it's a game, so what? If you don't like the rules of a game, go find a game that you do like.
6. When dealing with class balance, especially changes stemming from PVP complaints, it si impossible not to have a FOTM. There will always be an OP class and a class that is the whipping boy of the game. Those classes may change from time to time, but there will ALWAYS be a FOTM.
7. First, how will you know the person is telling the truth when they say "I didn't change my class"? Second, if they do not allow class changes, then there will be no issue.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
10.24.2013 , 08:49 PM | #3334
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
No one has suggested anything like that. I'm not sure where you're pulling that analogy from. Did your world fall apart when they let characters in this game respec? What's the difference been changing specs and changing advanced class (outside of an arbitrary designation)? Wow has specs within classes that are far more fundamentally different than most of the advanced class distinctions in this game. How did being able to respec ruin this game or that one?
Do you mean the "arbitrary designation" made by the DEVS, the ones who designed this game and the only ones who count? That arbitrary designation?

I would say that one is changing spec and the other is changing CLASS since that is how the devs see AC's, as different classes.

Savej's Avatar


Savej
10.24.2013 , 11:11 PM | #3335
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Do you mean the "arbitrary designation" made by the DEVS, the ones who designed this game and the only ones who count? That arbitrary designation?

I would say that one is changing spec and the other is changing CLASS since that is how the devs see AC's, as different classes.
Yep - the same devs that announced "we will have AC swapping available" 5 mos before early access and then CHANGED THEIR MINDS; THOSE DEVS/PRODUCERS. Those same devs/producers aren't calling it a class change, btw. They're calling it an Advanced Class choice. If they meant it's a "class choice", they wouldn't have invented an "advanced class" designation. Just like a college degree and a high school degree are both degrees but the degrees do not represent the same things at all. As I said, changing ACs is less drastic a change in play style in many cases in this particular game than changing specs is in other games or even within some ACs here. Outside of the gag reflex over "class change is bad", what makes AC swapping so repugnant? BTW, no one or almost no one (not confirming) in this massive thread has suggested swapping classes even if you and those in your camp frequently filter out the "A" in "AC" for the purposes having an argument.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
10.25.2013 , 07:29 AM | #3336
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
Yep - the same devs that announced "we will have AC swapping available" 5 mos before early access and then CHANGED THEIR MINDS; THOSE DEVS/PRODUCERS. Those same devs/producers aren't calling it a class change, btw. They're calling it an Advanced Class choice. If they meant it's a "class choice", they wouldn't have invented an "advanced class" designation. Just like a college degree and a high school degree are both degrees but the degrees do not represent the same things at all. As I said, changing ACs is less drastic a change in play style in many cases in this particular game than changing specs is in other games or even within some ACs here. Outside of the gag reflex over "class change is bad", what makes AC swapping so repugnant? BTW, no one or almost no one (not confirming) in this massive thread has suggested swapping classes even if you and those in your camp frequently filter out the "A" in "AC" for the purposes having an argument.
Those devs have said multiple times that AC are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASS designs and they see them as DIFFERENT CLASSES. Are you going to tell me that you know better than the devs? You may not see them as different classes, but the people in charge do.

They chose the term "advanced class" because it allowed them to have 8 CLASSES per faction while only having to create 4 STORYLINES per faction. When they changed their minds regarding class changes due to the majority of people being against class changes, they went to great lengths to ensure that people knew their choice of AC was PERMANENT and could NOT be undone.

Now, every player is told at least 4 separate times by 2 separate NPC's that their choice is PERMANENT and cannot be undone. Every player has to acknowledge this at least twice by clicking confirm in the little pop-up confirmation box that they understand it is a permanent choice and that they are choosing the class they want. Despite the fact that every player knows the restrictions on class changes, we still have countless threads begging the devs to change those restrictions because people are too lazy to use the mechanics already in place to play a new class.

If you want to play another class, then the mechanics already exist in game to enable you to do so. It's called re-roll.

Glower's Avatar


Glower
10.25.2013 , 08:21 AM | #3337
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Those devs have said multiple times that AC are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASS designs and they see them as DIFFERENT CLASSES. Are you going to tell me that you know better than the devs? You may not see them as different classes, but the people in charge do.

Yeah! Sure! And SWTOR will never be F2P...


Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Those devs have said multiple times that AC are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASS designs and they see them as DIFFERENT CLASSES.
Right skill tree says "hi"!
SWTOR goes F2P; 2014 PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)
2014 cantina, A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
2016 livestream: "RNG is exciting"

Nagasurayami's Avatar


Nagasurayami
10.25.2013 , 08:33 AM | #3338
I would rather have the talent tree save option when using the switching between talent tress its just sheer laziness to force us to redo talent trees over and over again instead of having a switch & save to tree A / B / C

DOHboy's Avatar


DOHboy
10.25.2013 , 08:34 AM | #3339
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
Yep - the same devs that announced "we will have AC swapping available" 5 mos before early access and then CHANGED THEIR MINDS; THOSE DEVS/PRODUCERS. Those same devs/producers aren't calling it a class change, btw. They're calling it an Advanced Class choice. If they meant it's a "class choice", they wouldn't have invented an "advanced class" designation. Just like a college degree and a high school degree are both degrees but the degrees do not represent the same things at all. As I said, changing ACs is less drastic a change in play style in many cases in this particular game than changing specs is in other games or even within some ACs here. Outside of the gag reflex over "class change is bad", what makes AC swapping so repugnant? BTW, no one or almost no one (not confirming) in this massive thread has suggested swapping classes even if you and those in your camp frequently filter out the "A" in "AC" for the purposes having an argument.
swapping AC is not a cosmetic thing. You can't go from a dual wielding sentinel to a single bladed guardian with a shield off hand at the flip of a switch. Nor would I expect a healing Commando with an Assault Cannon to switch AC and then become a blaster rifle vanguard tank. People think its just cosmetic, people also think its super expensive just swapping out gear mods and armor, or fully augmenting gear. Now take that with the AC change and your swapping out basically every piece of armor you have, fully augmenting it, new relics, new companion gear. People think its purely a cosmetic change, that only thing it involves is the skill tree.

Take into account skill of the player involved (people complain enough about bad tanks) now take into consideration a dps sage swapping to shadow tanking, or dps commando to vanguard tank. dps vanguard to commando heals. DPS to DPS swap is probably fine, DPS to tank/heals tends to get ugly quickly.

You would basically be starting from scratch which is why it would just be easier to swing an alt.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
10.25.2013 , 08:38 AM | #3340
Quote: Originally Posted by Glower View Post
Yeah! Sure! And SWTOR will never be F2P...
What does the devs seeing AC's a different classes have to do with F2P? That's not even apples and oranges. That's more like apples and teepees.




Quote: Originally Posted by Glower View Post
Right skill tree says "hi"!
Left and center skill trees say "hi". You ignore, BTW, that even the right skill trees are NOT identical. They share the same name and many of the skills, but they are NOT identical.
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