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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
10.23.2013 , 04:33 PM | #3311
Quote: Originally Posted by Suntaru View Post
I am in Agreement with you and I might add one. Reason #3 is Bioware sells extra Character slots. byt being able to just switch AC's , that will start taking extra cash away from Bioware even though it will not be a lot, it is still a loss of revenue from that angle.
don't subscribers get 16 slots as a base? which is exactly enough to have one character per AC per faction. so the only reason for people to create more alts (buying character slots in a process) is if they are either not subscribers and/or wish to replay character stories.

I do love how the post you are replying to uses minority on positive but not the negative.

if minority of players wants it, wouldn't it stand to reasons that only minority of players would use it? and if its just a minority of players, wouldn't' the impact be far far less than what some of you claim it would be?

moreover. not everyone likes to replay the same story over and over. its just not fun to them. and you don't really get to see how your character really works until about lvl 46 (which is where you get your top tier talent). last but not least, for some people, there's an attachment to the main character, regardless of the playstyle. they just play that particular character and recreating them just for another AC is not the same.

classes will still stay unique. you won't be able to user lightsabers as a bounty hunter, blasters as an inquisitor, force lightning as a warrior, or death from above as an agent. you'll still have limitations - gear, abilities, animations etc. switching between roles on a fly is already possible. so why is it ok for 2 roles but not 3?

no bioware never said they didn't want the same character to perform the same role. the restriction is purely arbitrary. but fine you don't want people to change it on a fly for whatever reason (reasons that I find to be, quite honestly - unreasonable) the restriction could be made. change only once a month or something like that. similar to name changes, legacy changes, etc. make it cost the same amount of cartel coins. per change

there you go.

the decision is still something you cannot just make on a whim, its costly, it will give bioware a bit of extra profit, and it will give that bit of extra flexibility to those who want it.
win/win!

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.23.2013 , 05:03 PM | #3312
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
don't subscribers get 16 slots as a base?
12 per server... but you can unlock up to 10 more.. for a total of 22 per server.

But your essential point is valid. Besides.. this game is made for rolling alts.. and so you can have all the ACs you want if you want them without mega-grinding. I get that some players prefer to focus and play on only one or two characters....and so they want AC changes....but that kind of goes against the spirit of the design of the game IMO.

And yes... I am an altaholic so I have a different perspective then people who only roll a character or two.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
10.23.2013 , 05:13 PM | #3313
Wow, this old debate still? Did we forget all the devs stating how ACs are complete, full-on classes by design? Did we forget how Damion has said this about ACs before and the player base and most other devs still don't want it? We must have also forgotten how doing this will crap all over purist-type class player, while the hybrid type has what he wants already.

Anyhoo, I doubt it happens. But we'll see.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
10.23.2013 , 06:02 PM | #3314
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology View Post
stop necro'ing this thread.

thanks
I sure hope that was intentional irony.

Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
Wow, this old debate still? Did we forget all the devs stating how ACs are complete, full-on classes by design? Did we forget how Damion has said this about ACs before and the player base and most other devs still don't want it? We must have also forgotten how doing this will crap all over purist-type class player, while the hybrid type has what he wants already.
What the heck is a "purist-type class player" and how does he or she maintain that "purity?"

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
10.23.2013 , 06:33 PM | #3315
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
What the heck is a "purist-type class player" and how does he or she maintain that "purity?"
Back in June of 2011, this same debate had been going for a while. At that time, a dev stated that AC-switching would "probably" come into game. That was said in 2011, by Georg Zoeller after having discussed it with Damion, and in an interview with TOR-TALK:

Quote: Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller
We are looking at allowing you to change advanced classes, but it's definitely something that we wouldn't want you to take lightly. So, it would probably be expensive to do so. At current, the plan is we will probably allow it, but you will not be able to do this very easily, like it's not something your character will do every day.
In that discussion thread where this quote appeared, many different viewpoints were shared. I made an observation, addressing many of the points raised, but focusing on the crux:

Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe
Whether or not AC's are locked won't break the game. This debate really has nothing to do with mechanics. It doesn't have anything to do with story, nor end-game, nor whether someone has a lot of time, or little time. It has nothing to do with PvP, or PvE, raid, or flashpoint. It really has not much to do with companions, either. This really doesn't have much to do with whether AC's are classes or not.

This debate comes down to playstyle, specifically two different playstyles that almost neatly divides the playerbase in two, and are at direct odds with each other:

Flexibility versus Distinction.

My preference is for class distinction. Even in games where there is a lot of flexibility, I don't use it. I'm a purist through and through. I have issues with people being able to merely click a button and become a class that I've spent weeks upon weeks leveling, outfitting, learning, and getting to know. My distinction disappears.

On the other side, we have people who really could care less what other people are doing with their characters. They only want to be able to have fun and do one thing one day and another thing the next. They could care less even about their own class distinction, as long as they're having fun.

Now, the traditional class model of themepark MMOs (until the last couple of years) was for each class to be distinct, specializing in only one role, and to be permanent.

Enter flexibility.

BioWare knows flexibility is just as important as distinction. Their class design shows that. To many of us, they have already struck the best balance between flexibility and distinction better than any MMO to date.

As a person who prefers distinction, I could be insisting that classes be put back to pure roles for the sake of distinction. I could be rallying to make them distinctly different than any other class. But I'm not. I am willing to accept BioWare's current compromise on the behalf of those that prefer flexibility.

Now, and think about this, aren't the pro-flexibility crowd doing just that by asking for even more flexibility at the expense of the other playstyle? I submit that, yes, they are. To ask for more flexibility by opening up AC's is tipping the already perfect balance too far to the other playstyle at the expense of mine.

So, in short, BioWare's current balance should be left as is, especially since AC-switching is "probably" already in at a high cost. That's plenty of flexibility with this class system.
If the plan clear back in 2011 was that they would "probably allow it", how much longer do you think it will take based on Damion's quote?

I wouldn't hold your breath.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
10.23.2013 , 06:51 PM | #3316
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
12 per server... but you can unlock up to 10 more.. for a total of 22 per server. (...)
And still that's not enough. We need more. Much more.

Savej's Avatar


Savej
10.23.2013 , 06:54 PM | #3317
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
Wow, this old debate still? Did we forget all the devs stating how ACs are complete, full-on classes by design? Did we forget how Damion has said this about ACs before and the player base and most other devs still don't want it? We must have also forgotten how doing this will crap all over purist-type class player, while the hybrid type has what he wants already.

Anyhoo, I doubt it happens. But we'll see.
I missed it? The last Damion Schubert quote I have is: http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

<<
18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.
>>

As for your comments about what the "majority of players" want, I can counter this easily with "most players want it".

LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
10.23.2013 , 06:59 PM | #3318
Re-roll
Neves - 55 Vanguard
Dahkaras - 55 AssassinKeelaran - 55Juggernaut
Kalkaran - 55 MercenaryKallim - 55 Operative

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
10.23.2013 , 07:08 PM | #3319
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
I missed it? The last Damion Schubert quote I have is: http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

<<
18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.
>>

As for your comments about what the "majority of players" want, I can counter this easily with "most players want it".
Sorry, I was speaking of numerous polls and player and dev comments that were made since 2011 that you probably aren't privy to. Refer to my comment and quotes above.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
10.23.2013 , 07:13 PM | #3320
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
12 per server... but you can unlock up to 10 more.. for a total of 22 per server.

But your essential point is valid. Besides.. this game is made for rolling alts.. and so you can have all the ACs you want if you want them without mega-grinding. I get that some players prefer to focus and play on only one or two characters....and so they want AC changes....but that kind of goes against the spirit of the design of the game IMO.

And yes... I am an altaholic so I have a different perspective than people who only roll a character or two.
I'm an altoholic myself. currently, I have 14 I actually play and one that was created because title professional was introduced to the game (yeah yeah, I know, I'm not at all original, but it was amusing and still is). I have more slots unlocked that I currently use... for reasons.

but I also play with people who don't play the way i do and no amount of incentives/different stories/ whatever will get them to level a character of another class, let alone second character of the same class, just to have a second AC. well... maybe huge xp buff that would allow them to skip everything, but the personal story (and for some, not even that, because they already know the story, its not fun anymore). it would be nice if they had pleasing options as well. I'm not sure what spirit of the game is anymore. now that we have done away with class specific content. hell, I love alts, and I'm starting to get seriously tired of 50 to 55 grind.

people who like alts either already bought all the character slots they wanted... or will buy them in a future anyways.

as for the "purist" debate.

how does having more options affect you? they would not be taking away your ability to play as a purist. you will still have it.

itys actualy kinda reminds me of the s/s relationship debate. making characters available to both genders doesn't take your ability to have heterosexual romance. its just adds ability for other people to have their s/s romance.

its kinda the same way here. if you don't wish to ever switch your AC? you don't have to. if you don't ever want to respec - you don't do it, right? even though we currently have ability to respec for free as many times as we wish, as subscribers. I remember back when you're respec fee got more and more unwieldy if you did it more than once a week. and here we are. unlimited respecs as much as we want them, free of credit charge. but you don't have to take advantage of them. so...