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Dread Palace HM - Raptus Question


Phill's Avatar


Phill
10.18.2013 , 11:55 AM | #1
When doing the challenges a message pops up saying we have 60 seconds to complete the challenge. However, we all wait and enter at the same time (all three groups healer, tank and dps) however, about 15-20 seconds goes by and we get a message saying we failed.

Is there something we are doing wrong? Why did we not get the full minute?

According to Dulfy we are doing it correct.
http://dulfy.net/2013/10/04/swtor-dr...eration-guide/
"General, surely there must be SOMEBODY left who needs some killing, or some killing done for them."......."Sorry, Major. There's nobody left. You've killed them all. "

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
10.18.2013 , 12:06 PM | #2
You have a minute total to enter the challenges and complete them. Each challenge has a much shorter time that it allows you. You fail a challenge when that challenge's timer runs out, not the phase's timer.

Iwipe's Avatar


Iwipe
10.18.2013 , 12:18 PM | #3
You do not need to have everyone going to all 3 portals at the same time. Just make sure all the players that are going to one specific portal are going in at the same time as that portal's challenge is activated when the first person steps into the portal. You might be wasting some time trying to get everyone going into all 3 portals at the same time.

Challenges are much short than a minute (the 1 minute timer is for finishing all 3 challenges) and even if one portal fails don't give up. You can still fight Raptus and win unless all 3 groups all fail their challenges then in which case it can get really rough.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.18.2013 , 12:24 PM | #4
In fact, you don't want everyone to go in at the same time. The tanks need to go in first because their challenge is on a strict timer (usually longer than the DPS) and they need to be the first ones to complete the challenge. Since you can no longer cheese the tank challenge by keeping one tank outside to deal with Raptus, you need to get your tanks back in the fray before anyone else, otherwise Raptus will one-shot the DPS who was challenged.

We generally do tanks (right away) > healers (delay 3-5 seconds) > dps (delay another 5-7 seconds). Our DPS finish their challenge in about 14-15 seconds, so that means they'll generally be finishing up right around the time that the tanks get solidly out of their portal and are in range to taunt Raptus.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Iwipe's Avatar


Iwipe
10.18.2013 , 12:50 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
In fact, you don't want everyone to go in at the same time. The tanks need to go in first because their challenge is on a strict timer (usually longer than the DPS) and they need to be the first ones to complete the challenge. Since you can no longer cheese the tank challenge by keeping one tank outside to deal with Raptus, you need to get your tanks back in the fray before anyone else, otherwise Raptus will one-shot the DPS who was challenged.

We generally do tanks (right away) > healers (delay 3-5 seconds) > dps (delay another 5-7 seconds). Our DPS finish their challenge in about 14-15 seconds, so that means they'll generally be finishing up right around the time that the tanks get solidly out of their portal and are in range to taunt Raptus.
You can still one tank the challenge, our powertech tank still does it solo. Not sure about other tanks.

Regardless, the waiting tip is pretty good for ops teams that cannot the tank challenge solo

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
10.18.2013 , 12:55 PM | #6
Just to add, as near as we can tell, the DPS challenge allows 20 or 21 seconds to kill the mob inside.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.18.2013 , 02:22 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Iwipe View Post
You can still one tank the challenge, our powertech tank still does it solo. Not sure about other tanks.

Regardless, the waiting tip is pretty good for ops teams that cannot the tank challenge solo
It's not really a question of what teams can and cannot. It's more a question of how much HP does your tank have. When you're solo tanking it, the challenge hits a shadow for roughly 1050 damage when it ticks, and it ticks once per second. It's internal damage, so that means the pre-mitigation hit is 1364. That's not too much damage, but you have to sustain that for 20 seconds. Thus, 27280 damage pre-mitigation overall. So, Thiol is losing 22097 HP for each tank challenge. That's not that bad if the other tank is taking the boss back (though I will say that your Jugg tank would only lose 20733 HP, and that's if he never uses Force Scream), but it's still a lot of damage. More importantly, it's completely avoidable damage.

The only advantage I see to solo tanking the challenge is it makes the tanking a little bit easier in the first few seconds after the challenge phase. But as long as your tanks complete their challenge first (something that is easily ensured by coordinating start times), they will be out and controlling the boss well before it becomes a problem. Dual tanking leaves more healing margins (i.e. if a tank gets spiked right before the challenges, there's no need to waste mana that could be spent on the healing challenge) and is good practice for Nightmare Mode, since I'm quite certain it wouldn't be possible to solo tank it there.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
10.18.2013 , 03:20 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
It's not really a question of what teams can and cannot. It's more a question of how much HP does your tank have. When you're solo tanking it, the challenge hits a shadow for roughly 1050 damage when it ticks, and it ticks once per second. It's internal damage, so that means the pre-mitigation hit is 1364. That's not too much damage, but you have to sustain that for 20 seconds. Thus, 27280 damage pre-mitigation overall. So, Thiol is losing 22097 HP for each tank challenge. That's not that bad if the other tank is taking the boss back (though I will say that your Jugg tank would only lose 20733 HP, and that's if he never uses Force Scream), but it's still a lot of damage. More importantly, it's completely avoidable damage.

The only advantage I see to solo tanking the challenge is it makes the tanking a little bit easier in the first few seconds after the challenge phase. But as long as your tanks complete their challenge first (something that is easily ensured by coordinating start times), they will be out and controlling the boss well before it becomes a problem. Dual tanking leaves more healing margins (i.e. if a tank gets spiked right before the challenges, there's no need to waste mana that could be spent on the healing challenge) and is good practice for Nightmare Mode, since I'm quite certain it wouldn't be possible to solo tank it there.
This does lead to a rare but significant anomaly. What if (on NiM mode) one of the tanks gets challenged? You send your tank + tankiest dps? What if the tankiest dps does not survive, a sorc with bubble? Unless I've missed something about the challenge mechanic this could cause problems later on.

Iwipe's Avatar


Iwipe
10.18.2013 , 03:22 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
It's not really a question of what teams can and cannot. It's more a question of how much HP does your tank have. When you're solo tanking it, the challenge hits a shadow for roughly 1050 damage when it ticks, and it ticks once per second. It's internal damage, so that means the pre-mitigation hit is 1364. That's not too much damage, but you have to sustain that for 20 seconds. Thus, 27280 damage pre-mitigation overall. So, Thiol is losing 22097 HP for each tank challenge. That's not that bad if the other tank is taking the boss back (though I will say that your Jugg tank would only lose 20733 HP, and that's if he never uses Force Scream), but it's still a lot of damage. More importantly, it's completely avoidable damage.

The only advantage I see to solo tanking the challenge is it makes the tanking a little bit easier in the first few seconds after the challenge phase. But as long as your tanks complete their challenge first (something that is easily ensured by coordinating start times), they will be out and controlling the boss well before it becomes a problem. Dual tanking leaves more healing margins (i.e. if a tank gets spiked right before the challenges, there's no need to waste mana that could be spent on the healing challenge) and is good practice for Nightmare Mode, since I'm quite certain it wouldn't be possible to solo tank it there.
You are talking like the tanks don't take any damage when they go in together. They do and sometimes when one tank is low for whatever reason, they may not survive in there. 20-22k damage isn't alot when your tanks have 40k+ HP and they can be quickly topped off.

Saying that you can't or you never should one tank the challenge simply isn't true. Being flexible is good. If for whatever reason you can't put 2 tanks into the challenge, then 1 tank can do it. I think one of our tanks even died in this week's farming run and we were forced to solo tank it.

Speaking of Nightmare mode, which we don't know the mechanics of. What if the enrage timer is tight? Why waste time to coordinate and wait? This is assuming that one tank can even survive a tank challenge on NiM mode.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.18.2013 , 04:02 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Panzerfire View Post
This does lead to a rare but significant anomaly. What if (on NiM mode) one of the tanks gets challenged? You send your tank + tankiest dps? What if the tankiest dps does not survive, a sorc with bubble? Unless I've missed something about the challenge mechanic this could cause problems later on.
I've never actually seen a tank get challenged in HM. Raptus always chooses a DPS as far as I can tell. Even if you lose a DPS (yay, lag + Spinning Attack), he'll just dump onto one of the other DPS.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iwipe View Post
You are talking like the tanks don't take any damage when they go in together. They do and sometimes when one tank is low for whatever reason, they may not survive in there. 20-22k damage isn't alot when your tanks have 40k+ HP and they can be quickly topped off.
My tank is sitting on 43k HP right now (and that's mitigation-stacking), and I'd still rather not solo tank it. It's true that the tanks do take noticeable damage going in together, but it isn't that much. Between self-healing and the fact that my internal damage resistance is much higher than a powertech's, I'll generally lose between 7% and 10% of my HP, which is proportionally much better even assuming my cotank takes more damage than I do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iwipe View Post
Saying that you can't or you never should one tank the challenge simply isn't true. Being flexible is good. If for whatever reason you can't put 2 tanks into the challenge, then 1 tank can do it. I think one of our tanks even died in this week's farming run and we were forced to solo tank it.
It is good to be flexible, I agree. I think that was actually my overall point. Knowing that you can one-tank it is great, but ultimately two-tanking it results in less and more diffuse damage, which means it has better margins in terms of healing both before and after the challenge.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iwipe View Post
Speaking of Nightmare mode, which we don't know the mechanics of. What if the enrage timer is tight? Why waste time to coordinate and wait? This is assuming that one tank can even survive a tank challenge on NiM mode.
I would imagine the challenge enrage will be tight (hopefully also the boss's, since he right now doesn't have an enrage at all), but I find it hard to imagine that Bioware will design a fight which forces a one-shot on the kiter every time the challenges go out. Pausing to wait for the tank challenge to be well-underway is not a significant hardship for the DPS, especially since they still clear the challenge within a second or two after the tanks exit the portal.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)