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Scoundrel Top 3 Answers

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
10.08.2013 , 10:16 PM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by Sideblaze View Post
1: "Psh, Ignore that assassin doing 8k executes and 10k mauls, you guys are fine with your front loaded burst that doesn't really do much against evenly geared players. Also, we might 'maybe' sort-of nerf your main opener and buff overload shot so you HAVE to use it."

2:"Heals are OP, we'll agree with you guys on this because we like the word "nerf" alot. Oh, and uh, we're going to stick our d*ck in your skill trees.

3: "Hey guys, i know that assassins and rage warriors can do everything you can do without stealth, and can melt you. but hey, let's nerf the one cool thing you get that no one else gets."


Meanwhile...

Assassin's #1 answer "Yeah, you guys are so underpowered compared to those operatives you melt in 3 GCDs. Want a 30% damage buff all-around?"
This truly is a sad game. And only today did I see where their focus is, since it hasn't been on class balancing: Space pvp. Seriously, the one version of pvp you can't **** up because everyone does the same thing: shooters.

Playing my shadow on POT5 recently, and I'm just amazed at how many smash warriors there are in arenas. There is no way in hell you can think of playing a scrapper, unless you are on a pve server against a half baked group, there is just way too much aoe damage and cc'ing going around, a scrapper is even less viable than it was in reg warzones.

And honestly, I know it'll sound odd, but looking at the output of warriors, I think a shadow/assassin actually needs that damage increase to keep up. Smash damage is just too good in arenas, and the defense of a marauder class just makes them so much more viable than any other melee class, it's almost as if arenas were designed just for them.

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
10.10.2013 , 10:10 AM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
This truly is a sad game. And only today did I see where their focus is, since it hasn't been on class balancing: Space pvp. Seriously, the one version of pvp you can't **** up because everyone does the same thing: shooters.

Playing my shadow on POT5 recently, and I'm just amazed at how many smash warriors there are in arenas. There is no way in hell you can think of playing a scrapper, unless you are on a pve server against a half baked group, there is just way too much aoe damage and cc'ing going around, a scrapper is even less viable than it was in reg warzones.

And honestly, I know it'll sound odd, but looking at the output of warriors, I think a shadow/assassin actually needs that damage increase to keep up. Smash damage is just too good in arenas, and the defense of a marauder class just makes them so much more viable than any other melee class, it's almost as if arenas were designed just for them.
The only thing I'll give that assassins needed buffed is volitic slash and thrash. Those are supposed to be the spammy main damage dealers in the trees, and for madness thrash IS the spammy main damage dealer. In deception its maul, I hardly ever see anyone volitic slash.

Maul, however is getting buffed as well. Which is an absolute joke. Guy on my server mauls for 10k. Even without a duplicity proc it hits harder than backstab, and it has NO COOLDOWN AT ALL. Backstab has TWELVE FREAKING SECONDS. There's no justification to this anymore.

A year back I'd have given that sins just didnt have any sustained damage like operatives, but NOW THEY DO!

I'd honestly like to see hidden strike allowed to be used in combat. I would never complain again.

Of course some things would need to be changed. Tie abilities to stealth. Jarring strike for instance, should only work with hidden strike from stealth. Tactical advantage should only be granted when hidden striking from stealth. But the ability itself needs to be useable at all times.

And lets face it, Hidden strike STILL doesnt hit as hard as maul -and- HAS A COOLDOWN.

-smh, bioware-

edit* to clarify, when I said I'd never complain again? about damage. I'll still complain about survival till they add % damage reduction stuff. On shield probe's durration for lethality, and stim boost for concealment. Or Stim boost as a base line, lets face it, you're hopped up on stims....
Syasentas - 55 Operative
Syadestis - 55 Powertech
Syaseheth - 55 Assassin
SyasehethS - 55 Juggernaut (yea, same name with an s, so what, wanna fight about it?)

Mursie's Avatar


Mursie
10.10.2013 , 12:03 PM | #293
There just is nothing more to say. The damage parses have to paint the clearest picture there is:

Smash - AOE, 9K, spammable, and can be auto critted

Maul - 8 to 10K, spammable

Shoot first - 7K, requires stealth, requires position, useable basically one time per encounter. and only crits for 7K about 40% of the time. LOL

seriously. this game is a joke for competitive pvp. Scrapper class is a complete joke.

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
10.10.2013 , 02:48 PM | #294
in all fairness against maul isnt that spammable... but still i better then backstab by quite a margin...

and actually the top deception assassin use voltaric slash a bit more often than the usual stun lock ganker, that will cry when it comes to an open fight.

Assassins need a sustained boost damage wise(since pug wzs are not all of pvp and in arenas are number 3 on the hitting priority list (Sages, DPS Operative, Assassins), the one scoundrels already got. We need more reliable bust and yeah you all know the story

Theagg's Avatar


Theagg
10.11.2013 , 09:56 AM | #295
Yep, it does indeed feel like the end for the middle tree Scoundrel. Much as I love the class, it's getting to be too much of a chore to try and just be 'equal' to other melee DPS classes that have it so much easier.

Most of the time as has been said, competing against equally experienced and geared opponents results in the contest being anything but equal. We die too quickly. As for the shady, slippery aspect of escaping, that doesn't fare well much of the time either.

I'm sure Bioware had noble ideas about this so called shady, slippery, lone wolf character but those ideas just don't match the reality of PVP as it currently is. (Which further reinforces the belief the developers haven't really played this class to any great degree in the PVP sense) In most zones and especially arenas, you cannot be the "lone wolf" and at he same time contribute effectively. As for deliberately being designed as a weaker class, therefore granted the slippery, shady run away and hide/heal status to compensate, nice in theory again doesn't work well in a world full of constant AoE's, DoT's and so on.

Never mind the fact Scrappers can't heal on the move.

I wouldn't say the developers don't care about this class, just that they have fixed ideas about the class that they seem unable to adapt to keep up with the larger changes they have made to nearly every other class. (example, other classes ability to detect stealth and prevent classes entering stealth have increased but there has been no similar "arms race" in the favour of stealthers.) Stealthers damage has generally been decreased, (whereas other classes have generally increased) because after all we are supposed to be the "weaker" class but nothing genuinely sneaky, slippery or underhand that would be effective in zones and especially arenas has been given to us to compensate)

And now we hear other classes guaranteed big hitters are getting a buff ?

What's the point of continuing ?

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
10.11.2013 , 01:50 PM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
The only thing I'll give that assassins needed buffed is volitic slash and thrash. Those are supposed to be the spammy main damage dealers in the trees, and for madness thrash IS the spammy main damage dealer. In deception its maul, I hardly ever see anyone volitic slash.

Maul, however is getting buffed as well. Which is an absolute joke. Guy on my server mauls for 10k. Even without a duplicity proc it hits harder than backstab, and it has NO COOLDOWN AT ALL. Backstab has TWELVE FREAKING SECONDS. There's no justification to this anymore.

A year back I'd have given that sins just didnt have any sustained damage like operatives, but NOW THEY DO!


And lets face it, Hidden strike STILL doesnt hit as hard as maul -and- HAS A COOLDOWN.

-smh, bioware-

edit* to clarify, when I said I'd never complain again? about damage. I'll still complain about survival till they add % damage reduction stuff. On shield probe's durration for lethality, and stim boost for concealment. Or Stim boost as a base line, lets face it, you're hopped up on stims....
backstab doesn't cost half your energy bar either......
and the comparison for hidden strike is spike not maul. And maul/spike don't apply a decently nasty dot either

and sins don't have scamper.....

Not say concealment is on par with deception, but please don't blow everything out of proportion.
Crinn
Trooper Hunter

Vanguard | Commando | Powertech | Mercenary
Quote: Originally Posted by Aves
Everything is fine, calm your Crinns

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
10.13.2013 , 04:19 AM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
backstab doesn't cost half your energy bar either......
and the comparison for hidden strike is spike not maul. And maul/spike don't apply a decently nasty dot either

and sins don't have scamper.....

Not say concealment is on par with deception, but please don't blow everything out of proportion.
Your energy also doesnt regain at a lower rate depending on how low it gets.
We also dont get a HUGE burst in resource regen that can be kept up for 24 seconds.

You -can- spam maul over and over and over with darkswell up. Not to mention maul itself can proc duplicity, adding to the ability to maul spam some more.
I keep a deception sin on my arena team JUST for this. I myself WONT play deception because -I- feel like a cheap **** for being able to do it, so my sin is madness.

And no, sins dont have scamper. They have force speed. And force shroud. And a 12 sec 50% dodge chance. One of those flat out negates ALL operative damge other than overload shot and auto attack. It also removes and makes you immune to everything lethality can do, removing your ability to even do any damage when it wears off because cull has no dots to cull.

Dont get me started on sins defenses compared to op/scoundrel. there is NO comparison. Sins have it good.

And I am not sure what you mean by the dot, you must be assuming all dps operatives are concealment and this only affects them.

No one is blowing anything out of proportions, they're putting it into perspective. I've played both a sin and an op since early access day one. I've been with both classes through the highs and lows. I was there when operatives where so OP they could literally kill you before you could stand up. I was there when sins where such garbage people just ignored them in WZ cause they weren't that big of a threat. The fact is the operative / scoundrel class was decimated because of how broken it was at release, then every other class buffed over it, and it was never properly gone over again.
Syasentas - 55 Operative
Syadestis - 55 Powertech
Syaseheth - 55 Assassin
SyasehethS - 55 Juggernaut (yea, same name with an s, so what, wanna fight about it?)

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
10.13.2013 , 08:07 AM | #298
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
Your energy also doesnt regain at a lower rate depending on how low it gets.
We also dont get a HUGE burst in resource regen that can be kept up for 24 seconds.

You -can- spam maul over and over and over with darkswell up. Not to mention maul itself can proc duplicity, adding to the ability to maul spam some more.
I keep a deception sin on my arena team JUST for this. I myself WONT play deception because -I- feel like a cheap **** for being able to do it, so my sin is madness.

And no, sins dont have scamper. They have force speed. And force shroud. And a 12 sec 50% dodge chance. One of those flat out negates ALL operative damge other than overload shot and auto attack. It also removes and makes you immune to everything lethality can do, removing your ability to even do any damage when it wears off because cull has no dots to cull.

Dont get me started on sins defenses compared to op/scoundrel. there is NO comparison. Sins have it good.

And I am not sure what you mean by the dot, you must be assuming all dps operatives are concealment and this only affects them.

No one is blowing anything out of proportions, they're putting it into perspective. I've played both a sin and an op since early access day one. I've been with both classes through the highs and lows. I was there when operatives where so OP they could literally kill you before you could stand up. I was there when sins where such garbage people just ignored them in WZ cause they weren't that big of a threat. The fact is the operative / scoundrel class was decimated because of how broken it was at release, then every other class buffed over it, and it was never properly gone over again.
Two mauls without dublicity out of force.... so not really spammable

ishbindeinvater's Avatar


ishbindeinvater
10.13.2013 , 11:40 AM | #299
ok how i read the answers:

damage is fine ... say the metrics ...
probably change hidden strike but that will take long
nerf to orbital strike


yeah. so overall, its a nerf.

concealment needs more damage not less.
ICH BIN DEIN VAAAATEERRRRR !!!!!!!!!!!

athanase's Avatar


athanase
10.14.2013 , 01:21 PM | #300
This thread is of no use if devs do not not consider it. Any yellow here ???????????????
"Cé koi erpé ?" - Mégodass, soldat fat DPS.
"Je sé pa" - DarthNaruto, Sith ambidextre et mononeurone.