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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.30.2013 , 05:28 PM | #951
Quote: Originally Posted by NoFishing View Post
Uhm, marauders don't have taunts. So the rest of the failure in that story is pretty much yours. You went in with 3 DPS, and a DPS (you) tanked. It isn't surprising.

You should have replaced either him or the operative with an actual tank, or even just used a tank pet.
Oh, my mistake. I guess I thought that the Juggernaut's taunt was a Warrior ability, not a Juggernaut one. Good thing I didn't actually tell him to use it during the heroic, just his interrupt. It would've been embarrassing for him to have been actually right about something.

Still, even considering his lack of a taunt, his inability to keep any sort of aggro was annoying. I'm perfectly used to enemies attacking me as a ranged DPS, regardless of how good the tank is. It happens. And it'd have been unreasonable of me to demand that the Marauder keep all the enemies on him, obviously. I knew very well that he wasn't a tank (although I guess I slightly overestimated just how not-tanky he was). But what ended up happening that virtually all of the enemies attacked me virtually all of the time, even when I was furiously using my aggro dump, even when he pulled, even even even.

If he was just incompetent, that'd be one thing. But he was incompetent, impatient, and thought he was carrying the group and knew how to play better than anybody else. That was what really got me. I'm fine with getting attacked all the time even as ranged DPS if we don't have a tank in the group. I'm fine with wiping because group members are still learning. What I'm not fine with is people in the group ignoring suggestions that would make both of those things much less problematic, and I'm certainly not fine with people saying those things are irrelevant and throwing them back in my face.

And yes, if I had been group leader, I certainly would've used my own tank companion instead of incompetent DPS. I did later on in the heroic when the Marauder ditched us and things worked perfectly well. This isn't exactly my first rodeo. Unfortunately, I wasn't the group leader, and I figured that ditching the group and trying to form a new one would take even longer.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
09.30.2013 , 11:11 PM | #952
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
In all fairness, he sometimes recognizes this and switches to dps, but his target selection is bizarre. He'll attack an enemy that nobody's going after, instantly drawing aggro and making the poor Sorcerer's job infinitely more difficult, while not actually doing a whole lot of damage because, again, his gear sucks. He spends something like a third of every fight in stealth, trying to drop aggro, but I guess he doesn't get why he's drawing aggro, because as soon as he stealths he immediately goes back to attacking his lone enemy target and once again has his own personal Tusken to fight. Hooray.
Any enemy that is left alone will go after the healer. The healer draws aggro from every enemy in the fight (50% of his heals divided evenly among the enemies). So leaving an enemy alone would make the sorceror's job more difficult as well because he would be attacked. He might not have done a lot of damage but he was helping more than hurting.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

Bilirubin's Avatar


Bilirubin
09.30.2013 , 11:18 PM | #953
Had my first party member in Czerka Core Meltdown HM in levelling greens, the highest piece they were wearing was iirc 143 but that was a standout from my inspection. After several wipes heals noticed this and regretfully vote kicked. What is the recommended gear level for these instances again?

However the wipes didn't end there. Two more, one on Duneclaw and one on the jungle boss. Another DPS dropped after the second, making me think I had not tanked properly. On the following pull I just popped the spore pods as they came up irrespective of the length on the debuff and it went down. Still, I'm annoyed it took so long so I will triple check I understand the mechanics. But, weekly done before patch comes down (agani).
Cyannin Level 55 Shadow | Rubinin Level 50 Gunslinger | Mikuri Level 55 Sentinel | Vertatin Level 47 Commando | PURgE
Scartina Level 17 Marauder
The Bastion

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
09.30.2013 , 11:20 PM | #954
You don't need to carry around tank heal and 2 dps "standard" build for any H4. I've even soloed that one easily on my commando dps with elara dorn (pub gets the same, altough killing 50 is the bonus, and bloodgouge the main objective on their side).

The actual "best" group in term of speed are 4 dps who know their crap, one with offheal ability, and one with ability to take some damage ideally (so a mara or a merc are great)

3 dps and a healer work fine, either each take their mob (h4 are typically 2 strongs 2 elites to 4 elites) or burn them off on focus fire, making sure you spread out threat a bit.


A funny story I have about such a group tough, happenned to me lately on Hoth. It was my 2nd play through the planet on the pub side, on my scoundrel that respec between heal and dps depending how I feel. Now I soloed every H4 with Risha or HK51 before her, and never fetched a group for any (I like some challenge) in heal spec.

However, my first play through the planet was on a shadow tank, that quested with a friends scoundrel sawbones, and I quite remember taking some nasty hits in the H4 Terror Brigade.

So i decide to search for teammates, and join a team that also wanted to do some other H4 on the planet. Ow well alright then. We do the Prisoner one, goes decently enough altough healer is struggling a bit so I respec to heals myself. Finish H4, one of the 3 drops, so I'm off with a commando level 38 and sent level 45 to Terror Brigade.

No one answers for the last group spot, so I roll out risha due to her being decently geared, and I'm confident in my healing to keep 3 dps up.

Now in the previous H4, I did notice the commando was not doing much damage. However, a 45 sent, i was rather sure that would be rapping the place.

Well no. We do few first thrash pack, first amusing thing, commando starts running as soon as he aggros something. But Forest Gump style run. I'd have put Bon Jovi's Runaway in the background, and we got a winner youtube video.

At least he's not aggroing other group doing so, however he fails at kiting too and still takes damage. Issue is he's running away from me as well. So here's the commando, then that tiny wannabe wampa mob in the first few pull of Terror Brigade, then me, trying to heal him, while risha and the sent finish the rest of the mobs.


So its amusing, lets continue, and I'm in laidback mode with a glass of wine, so I'm not in a teaching mood. That works, nobody dies or even get closes, lets keep moving!

Then comes the 2nd fun part. We get to wampa champion. Sentinel pulls, fight start. Guy don't need much more than 2 kolto packs to be kept up, he is a bit overleveled after all. So I do moderate dps while still maintaining positive energy levels. Then...Risha pulls from him. Level 43 dps comp pulls. Wait what?

Then with my MODERATE dpsing on full heal spec...I pulled from Risha. Thats when I realized the guys dps was under 350. Then Sent more closely...and yep no procs from the Focus tree his stance suggest.

Maybe i should have helped them. But I didn't feel the need for The H4 (thing were slow but fine, no big mistakes from either, so saw worse) and as said, I was not in the mood for a long winded convo, so we finished the H4 and left it at that.

Looking back I do feel guilty about it a bit, since I suspect with a bit of coaching they should end up fine.

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
10.01.2013 , 08:33 AM | #955
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
And yes, if I had been group leader, I certainly would've used my own tank companion instead of incompetent DPS. I did later on in the heroic when the Marauder ditched us and things worked perfectly well. This isn't exactly my first rodeo. Unfortunately, I wasn't the group leader, and I figured that ditching the group and trying to form a new one would take even longer.
You are really being too hard on people here. Remember that not everyone is on their third of fourth character, some people are on their first still trying to figure out their rotation, the map, gearing and the overall game. This is not an ops or level 55hm fp or even a belsavis heroic. It's tatooine, not even the end of chapter 1 (not even the last planet in chapter 1). This is the place to make mistakes, to run around, to put on the wrong gear, to break CC etc. It's frustrating, but you always have the option of not running group events early. To expect people to know all about moddable gear (not everyone has alts and collections to get adaptable armor from btw), and the maximum output rotation, much less expect a dps how to hold aggro at this stage is insane. The best you can do is gently tell them what they are doing wrong, and move on. If they listen, they listen, if they don't they don't. Get over it. In my case, when they make the mistake of breaking CC, I gently tell them to make sure not to attack characters that are CCed after making sure they understand what CC is. By the time we reach hoth, I get a little more peeved and say "we are on hoth, you should know not to break CC by now".
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

Alanbra's Avatar


Alanbra
10.01.2013 , 09:18 AM | #956
After reading the thread, thought I'd share my oddest fp experience.

I was on my sorc dps and had foundry pop up right after HK was released. Had a group of a PT dps, assassin tank, and operative heals. Each of the first trash fights ends with my dying after pulling aggro from the tank and getting only small heals from the operative because he blew his energy doing burst dps. Finally inspect the other players and our tank had a focus instead of a shield generator and our heals is badly undergeared.

The PT dps whispers me and says " We can't kick both the tank and the healer, can you off-heal this?" I say sure and the PT switches to tank stance and throws a guard on me and we proceed to roll through the FP without another single death with the PT dps taking all the aggro, the sorc dps spamming bubbles and basic heals, the operative healer rolling into cover and sniping, and the assassin tank single target dpsing from strongest to weakest.

It was one of the most absurd and fun FP's I've ever had.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
10.01.2013 , 10:32 AM | #957
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
You are really being too hard on people here. Remember that not everyone is on their third of fourth character, some people are on their first still trying to figure out their rotation, the map, gearing and the overall game. This is not an ops or level 55hm fp or even a belsavis heroic. It's tatooine, not even the end of chapter 1 (not even the last planet in chapter 1). This is the place to make mistakes, to run around, to put on the wrong gear, to break CC etc. It's frustrating, but you always have the option of not running group events early. To expect people to know all about moddable gear (not everyone has alts and collections to get adaptable armor from btw), and the maximum output rotation, much less expect a dps how to hold aggro at this stage is insane. The best you can do is gently tell them what they are doing wrong, and move on. If they listen, they listen, if they don't they don't. Get over it. In my case, when they make the mistake of breaking CC, I gently tell them to make sure not to attack characters that are CCed after making sure they understand what CC is. By the time we reach hoth, I get a little more peeved and say "we are on hoth, you should know not to break CC by now".


So, I go out of my way to say that I was not getting angry in group chat, that I stayed with the group to the bitter end, that I didn't demand that the group leader kick the offending players, that I made every effort to provide helpful tips to the players that I felt were not playing well...and this means I was too hard on them?

The only manifestations of my frustration with that group were a) a little bit of commiseration with the Sorcerer after the fact and b) typing up this post here because I felt like telling the story. I didn't explode into a million pieces out of sheer rage, I didn't scream at the other players in chat. I just wrote up a story as a sort of "haha, this group was kinda bad and annoying, here's why", and that's it.

You might be mistaking the whole wall-of-text thing for anger. Nah. That's just what I do: I write long posts about all sorts of stuff. I wanted to get the full story in there because I enjoy telling stories. So sure, I was annoyed by the group, by the wasted time, and by the players' insistence on not paying attention to the help I was trying to give. But it was just annoyance and that's it.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
10.01.2013 , 12:04 PM | #958
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
You might be mistaking the whole wall-of-text thing for anger. Nah. That's just what I do: I write long posts about all sorts of stuff. I wanted to get the full story in there because I enjoy telling stories. So sure, I was annoyed by the group, by the wasted time, and by the players' insistence on not paying attention to the help I was trying to give. But it was just annoyance and that's it.
Gotcha. Sometimes it is hard to tell with just plain old cold text.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
10.01.2013 , 03:00 PM | #959
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post

That sounds bad to me. So, the Empire is destroying everything the Republic has ? It sounds to me like a boy destroying freshly built castels in the sand ...
Um yeah that's kinda why the Empire is the BAD GUYS? Plus, there is strategic reason for destroying Taris. Taris is really close to Dromund Kass, so if the Republic were to rebuild Taris they would very much have a great forward base to attack Dromund Kass from. In fact, the Imperial Taris Bonus series is all about that... attacking and further destroying the Republic Garrison on Taris that they were secretly building alongside the "humanitarian" restoration efforts.

So, leaving Taris alone just isn't an option for the Empire, and they don't have the resources to kick out the Republic and rebuild the planet themselves. But, being so close to Dromund Kass, they can't ignore it.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
10.01.2013 , 10:48 PM | #960
Quote: Originally Posted by AbsolutGrndZero View Post
In fact, the Imperial Taris Bonus series is all about that... attacking and further destroying the Republic Garrison on Taris that they were secretly building alongside the "humanitarian" restoration efforts.
Not to get hugely off topic here, but that personally always felt more like an after-the-fact means to justify the whole thing, and less like something that would legitimately happen.

I mean, you're told the Republic has constructed a fleet there that dwarfs the Empires. I assume it's just referring to the ships around Taris, but still. A fleet of what, cruisers? Capital ships? Why would the Republic build them on Taris? How would they build them on Taris? They'd literally have to create their own construction facilities from scratch, which feels more than a little uncessesary when they control the manufacturing behemoths that are the core worlds.