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Class Representatives Are Here!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class Representatives Are Here!
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
09.26.2013 , 05:13 PM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by KhalDrogoe View Post
I'm expecting a powerpoint presentation with charts, metrics, graphs, and detailed explanations of each.
No useful information has ever appeared in a power point presentation. Might as well ask for it to be on twitter.

AngelFluttershy's Avatar


AngelFluttershy
09.26.2013 , 08:53 PM | #322
These delays are setting the expectation quite high, for the sake of everyone I hope the answers deliver.

AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
09.26.2013 , 09:58 PM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelFluttershy View Post
These delays are setting the expectation quite high, for the sake of everyone I hope the answers deliver.
And sorcs shall long remember the "martyrdom" of receiving answers so crappy, the ensuing revolt brought hope to other gimped classes (though not ours).

Seriously, don't forget the sacrificial lambs in this, because it's not like the Combat Team would ever come back and provide us bona fide answers and retract "heal to full." I still remember Courtney, after being told in no uncertain terms that her "settle down" response was unacceptable, said she would "work with the Combat Team to get you a response today," and that never materialized.

And in the event this does turn out to be another heal to full fiasco...join us.
Adrian-Defense Guardian | Kerrik-Vigilance Guardian | Matari-Scoundrel Healer | Treston-Pyromaniac Vanguard | Eamen-Sage Healer
Kendrew-Op Healer | Andreus-Sorc Healer | Matarion-Juggernaut Smasher
The Makaryk Legacy of Healing to Full - Begeren Colony
The Heal to Full and Make Them Pay Show

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
09.27.2013 , 04:30 AM | #324
I don't quite understand why these NEW questions should get "thoughtful" answers, whereas the Sorcerors got H2F and Vanguards the infamous "perception problem".

Because - why didn't they get "thoughtful" answers in the first place ?
_________________________________________________
About balancing classes :
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
It's weird really...they balance around PvP...but give PvE the content.
Quote: Originally Posted by Surbatu View Post
When everybody plays one class = perfect balance. Right? Problem solved.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
09.27.2013 , 07:19 AM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
I don't quite understand why these NEW questions should get "thoughtful" answers, whereas the Sorcerors got H2F and Vanguards the infamous "perception problem".

Because - why didn't they get "thoughtful" answers in the first place ?
Personally I thought the sorc questions were asked very poorly, now whether or not it warranted the answers is another question. As for the vanguards, they're getting some nice buffs with 2.4 so they're moaning has paid off.

AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
09.27.2013 , 08:54 AM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Personally I thought the sorc questions were asked very poorly, now whether or not it warranted the answers is another question. As for the vanguards, they're getting some nice buffs with 2.4 so they're moaning has paid off.
Response to the "Sorcs were asking for ponies and unicorns" argument

(And I felt it necessary to mention that melee anti-kiting has also been buffed over the time period described in that post, a couple of posts after that. Examples being smash obliterate no longer respecting roots, vengeance given speed increase, vanguards getting hold the line baseline, etc.)
Adrian-Defense Guardian | Kerrik-Vigilance Guardian | Matari-Scoundrel Healer | Treston-Pyromaniac Vanguard | Eamen-Sage Healer
Kendrew-Op Healer | Andreus-Sorc Healer | Matarion-Juggernaut Smasher
The Makaryk Legacy of Healing to Full - Begeren Colony
The Heal to Full and Make Them Pay Show

cycao's Avatar


cycao
09.27.2013 , 10:16 AM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
Response to the "Sorcs were asking for ponies and unicorns" argument

(And I felt it necessary to mention that melee anti-kiting has also been buffed over the time period described in that post, a couple of posts after that. Examples being smash obliterate no longer respecting roots, vengeance given speed increase, vanguards getting hold the line baseline, etc.)
The nerf to overload was also shared with assassins/shadows. The removal also crippled madness for assassins which was already fairly weak compared to its mirror. And for the root on knock back, they have stated they want to get away from hybrids and have people focus on full 36 point builds.

The whole 'heal to full' was quite silly and that sorcs 'easy to play, hard to master' can almost be applied to every spec/class. If the majority of sorcs/sages I see in warzones didn't try to face tank melee or stop using force speed while using backpeddle I might get behind the hard to master what not.

They literally came out and said the exact same thing about deception last year in that just about everyone was playing it wrong.

Anyways I thoroughly enjoy my sorc and while some things could be added I hear a lot of sorcs suggesting that its unplayable and while that may be the case for arenas a very small percentage of players and an even smaller amount of them being sorcs/sages I only know of a handful of sorcs personally and while some did well they needed to have excellent players backing them up.

They have stated that they will be taking a harder look at class balance when 2.5 approaches as they are putting a hold on the class answers to avoid rewording of the questions being asked off of the answers given assuming they were not the answers that the majority of the players playing said class wanted.

Class balance is always something I find fascinating. I play with a guy who is nothing short of amazing on his PT even after the changes in 2.0 and he cannot wait for the buffs coming with 2.4. To me class balance comes down to this, do you balance around the average skill cap or by the classes overall potential in the hands of something who knows how to play a class?

Given the vast gaps in skill that this game still has in PvP and in PvE it is something that will always have negative results by the players who play the class which is getting the short end of the stick as they have gotten comfortable with how there class performs which usually goes hand in hand with ''I'm rerolling" and you should too and then obviously it leads players not playing classes which have gotten buffed as FOTM or for this games case FOTY since rage/focus has been quite strong since forever and the same goes with operative/scoundrel healing.

And I have lost my train of thought as I have been going from the phone for work and back to this post and I think this started as why these particular set of answers are taking longer than others because VG and sorcs feel they got shafted on their answers.

AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
09.27.2013 , 11:16 AM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
The nerf to overload was also shared with assassins/shadows. The removal also crippled madness for assassins which was already fairly weak compared to its mirror. And for the root on knock back, they have stated they want to get away from hybrids and have people focus on full 36 point builds.
Of course sins/shadows got nerfed along with us sorcs, as they share the same knockback (and we also share the nerfed whirlwind). Perhaps not coincidentally, they're also the other class that's in the doghouse (not discounting the fact that mercs were stuck out in the cold forever, too).

Also, I would point out that the other classes with AOE knockbacks 1) still have such knockbacks at 360 and 2) do not need to spec into some form of movement impairment on the knockback. Mercs get slow, snipers get root. No need to spec.

I can understand why Bioware might want to make 36 point builds "worth it" but given the way AOE knockbacks function in this game it was ill-advised to remove the utility of ours from 2 of 3 specs. Especially as ours has the shortest knockback distance of the three, in addition to only being a cone vs. 360. Now the sacrifices our knockback makes relative to mercs/snipers might make sense if ours was the longest of the three, but as it is, it is hands down the worst.

Quote:
The whole 'heal to full' was quite silly and that sorcs 'easy to play, hard to master' can almost be applied to every spec/class. If the majority of sorcs/sages I see in warzones didn't try to face tank melee or stop using force speed while using backpeddle I might get behind the hard to master what not.

They literally came out and said the exact same thing about deception last year in that just about everyone was playing it wrong.
Well, to be fair it can be supremely difficult for non-healy sorcs to avoid facetanking with constant rootlocks that they cannot escape from. The fact that our overload, bar lightning spec, does nothing to prevent the enemy from coming right back to us within 1 GCD and continuing to lay into us while we are so rootlocked does not help matters. It's why there was so much gnashing for fadeout baseline from DPS sorcs who were told to LOS and heal to full.

I switched to lightning last night because I wanted to DPS and (especially because I'm widely known as a healer) I was chain rootlocked for 10+ seconds constantly and focus fired. When I even managed to survive for 10 seconds under such conditions, it was only because I was using everything else I had. I did not want to facetank; as a healer I am used to being able to neutralize rootlocking to a large extent, but when I was a DPS the enemy team decided I would be trapped in place and shut down and, lo and behold, I was shut down (in some warzones to the point where I did more "healing to full" than damage LOL).

For the record, I am not one of those backpedaling with Force Speed active sorcs--I hold the current #3 RWZ healing record on my server (despite the fact I've only found a few ranked games here and there as my guild has trouble getting more than 4 interested people on at the same time). Admittedly I didn't transfer to Bastion, but still I'm very familiar with the class, its strengths, and its weaknesses.

Healy sorcs, in contrast, are very very slippery (one of their big strengths is the difficulty in rootlocking them), but their ability to Make Them Pay for wasting a stunbreak is practically nil because our knockback is so weak and to KB+slow costs us not one but two globals (it really should only cost one, slow should be built into the knockback). To say nothing of horrendously long casted mez (that we almost never use in PVP except for the occasional fakecast as a result of such long cast).

Quote:
Anyways I thoroughly enjoy my sorc and while some things could be added I hear a lot of sorcs suggesting that its unplayable and while that may be the case for arenas a very small percentage of players and an even smaller amount of them being sorcs/sages I only know of a handful of sorcs personally and while some did well they needed to have excellent players backing them up.
Indeed, after 2.0 I actually switched back to maining my sorc, retired my operative entirely until the heal to full debacle clearly indicated the devs wouldn't care whether or not sorc heals were welcome in arenas, and my scoundrel became something of an afterthought. Again, until now, where if I want to be viable in arenas, I must play FOTY.

In before "Don't Balance Around Arenas Lest We Have Never-Ending Balance Crusade:" This would not be nearly as big an issue if we could still have 8v8 Ranked, where there is more room to accommodate a wider diversity of classes without gimping your team for competitive play. But the smaller the team, the more class imbalance gets amplified--and competitive play is getting forced into smaller teams.

Quote:
They have stated that they will be taking a harder look at class balance when 2.5 approaches as they are putting a hold on the class answers to avoid rewording of the questions being asked off of the answers given assuming they were not the answers that the majority of the players playing said class wanted.

Class balance is always something I find fascinating. I play with a guy who is nothing short of amazing on his PT even after the changes in 2.0 and he cannot wait for the buffs coming with 2.4. To me class balance comes down to this, do you balance around the average skill cap or by the classes overall potential in the hands of something who knows how to play a class?

Given the vast gaps in skill that this game still has in PvP and in PvE it is something that will always have negative results by the players who play the class which is getting the short end of the stick as they have gotten comfortable with how there class performs which usually goes hand in hand with ''I'm rerolling" and you should too and then obviously it leads players not playing classes which have gotten buffed as FOTM or for this games case FOTY since rage/focus has been quite strong since forever and the same goes with operative/scoundrel healing.

And I have lost my train of thought as I have been going from the phone for work and back to this post and I think this started as why these particular set of answers are taking longer than others because VG and sorcs feel they got shafted on their answers.
I really do hope the Combat Team pays more attention to class balance--the fact that we've started using FOTY to replace FOTM is just sad. But after burning myself out on trying to get H2F retracted and replaced with bona fide answers to our class questions, I must say my interest in this game has waned a lot and I've found myself going back to EVE Online for the first time since shortly after SWTOR released. And last night was my first time my guildies had seen me on in about a week.

Considering I played for a few hours daily right before H2F, that's just sad. I'm not sure how much longer the Combat Team can continue waiting on class balance before there are no classes that are actually played left to balance.
Adrian-Defense Guardian | Kerrik-Vigilance Guardian | Matari-Scoundrel Healer | Treston-Pyromaniac Vanguard | Eamen-Sage Healer
Kendrew-Op Healer | Andreus-Sorc Healer | Matarion-Juggernaut Smasher
The Makaryk Legacy of Healing to Full - Begeren Colony
The Heal to Full and Make Them Pay Show

KhalDrogoe's Avatar


KhalDrogoe
09.27.2013 , 11:25 AM | #329
It's your own fault you want to play something other than a warrior or agent. BW clearly wants everyone to play these two classes, so if you haven't gotten the hint yet.... HERE'S YOUR SIGN.

Iraq-Lobster, Wakwa, The Marshmallow Legacy POT5
Bloobies - JC

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
09.27.2013 , 12:11 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
I switched to lightning last night because I wanted to DPS and (especially because I'm widely known as a healer) I was chain rootlocked for 10+ seconds constantly and focus fired. When I even managed to survive for 10 seconds under such conditions, it was only because I was using everything else I had. I did not want to facetank; as a healer I am used to being able to neutralize rootlocking to a large extent, but when I was a DPS the enemy team decided I would be trapped in place and shut down and, lo and behold, I was shut down (in some warzones to the point where I did more "healing to full" than damage LOL).
As a sorc, I completely agree with your previous post that you quoted and with most of the things you mention in this one, but I can't agree with this part.

You were focused.
It doesn't matter if you were focused because they know you are a good player or because you were mistaken for a healer or because it just happened. The enemy team did what they were supposed to do: they recognized who is a threat in your team and killed you as soon as they saw you. They used their brains. And trust me, that's a pretty rare sight these days in PVP.

ANY DPS, let alone a light armor wearing glass cannon like a Lightning Sorc/TK Sage, should die easily if focused and shut down by more than 2 players of the enemy team. That's the whole point of being a DPS.

I understand your point wasn't that BW should make us immortal, but I just wanted to point out that this is probably a bad example.
Master Kalchas Captain Santé
Darth Dírge Agent Héretic