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BiS Tanking relics for each class *confused*

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
BiS Tanking relics for each class *confused*

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
08.27.2013 , 11:59 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kuciwalker View Post
Vanguards (DPS and tank) get some very minor healing when they take AOE damage - 2.5% of total health, 3s rate limit. That's an average of 6s-ish to proc the healing relic. I haven't played a shadow and don't know how frequently their self-heals actually happen, but that puts an upper bound of it being 30% more valuable to Shadows than Vanguards *while taking regular AOE damage*.
It's not bad idea per say, but you would really need to examine the actual frequency of area attacks as well as what kinds of attacks are defined to fit the criteria for the heal proc. For example, in a brief look at some logs from last week, the heal activated only 13 times on Dash'roode, 12 times on Thrasher, but a whopping 35 times on Titan 6. The first two cases don't give me reason to believe that the relic would be proccing frequently enough, but there may be fights like Titan 6 where that frequency would be significantly higher.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
08.27.2013 , 12:01 PM | #22
OK, all of this combined sounds like it's a no-go. Thanks everyone

LoRdTyRANTz's Avatar


LoRdTyRANTz
08.27.2013 , 01:25 PM | #23
Not taking any shots. I just am 100% against tanks equipping the EM relic. The healing relic is for healers, not tanks. Especially for VG or PT and even shadow/sin tanks that have a high shield chance, the absorb proc is BIS due to the higher proc frequency. And yea as content gets harder, bosses will hit harder so the absorb proc will continue to absorb more damage for harder hitting bosses.

hlavinkaXVX's Avatar


hlavinkaXVX
08.27.2013 , 04:47 PM | #24
for Shadows in the Arkanian tier: before getting the Fortunate Redoubt relic, which Arkanian relic would people recommend along with the Shield Amplification? dipstik's chart says Shield clicker (Shrouded Crusader). thanks in advance.

Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
08.27.2013 , 09:05 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by hlavinkaXVX View Post
for Shadows in the Arkanian tier: before getting the Fortunate Redoubt relic, which Arkanian relic would people recommend along with the Shield Amplification? dipstik's chart says Shield clicker (Shrouded Crusader). thanks in advance.
Healing relic, idt that has changed.
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Kadjunga's Avatar


Kadjunga
09.23.2013 , 07:22 AM | #26
instead of creating a new thread...

I have been using the healing relic for forever on my sin but only recently noticed it gives you about ~1.5% of your total health back if it procs every 20s. However, a shielded (+absorbed) hit would reduce the damage taken by ~7-9% for 6s which means it mitigates more damage taken than the 1.5% self heal you would receive. Especially in nightmare content where you have a higher shield build anyway.

Soo... the question is.

why is the healing relic considered BiS still?

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.23.2013 , 09:39 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Kadjunga View Post
instead of creating a new thread...

I have been using the healing relic for forever on my sin but only recently noticed it gives you about ~1.5% of your total health back if it procs every 20s. However, a shielded (+absorbed) hit would reduce the damage taken by ~7-9% for 6s which means it mitigates more damage taken than the 1.5% self heal you would receive. Especially in nightmare content where you have a higher shield build anyway.

Soo... the question is.

why is the healing relic considered BiS still?
Because a absorb proc relic doesnt reduce the damage you take by 7-9% when it procs. When i do the math with dipstiks formulas i get a 2,65% reduce in damage taken (~from 70 to 72% migation) when it procs.

Therefore, a absorb proc relic gets on average better then the healing relic when you get more then ~6200 dps (unmigated) on average (based on dipstiks data).

Currently the average damage a tank takes in 8 man nim is about 4-4,5k unmigated dps, so on average the healing relic would still be better.

Also the values dipstik calculated with are from sv hm (which has a lot more m/r and f/t (shieldable) attacks then tfb nim), which would make the healing relic even better for tfb hm/nim.

But this conclusion would miss important points:
Sin tanks already have a lot of reactive self-healing and healing (HD stacks, dark charge, 5% healing buff...),so for them its generally better to have more damage migation. More simple: A dead tank can't heal himself.

The damage tanks face in nim is not always the same and especially when there's a lot of pressure on the tank (when there's more damage then the average 4-4,5k) the absorb proc relics are way better then the healing relic (on average). Most of the bosses (twh, op9, kephess, titan, Styrak...) put most of their time the pressure just on one tank, so this tank will get almost double the damage while he tanks the boss and almost no damage, when hes not tanking the boss.

You can then obviously argument to use the click relics, as they will provide the best migation for short periods of time when you face a lot damage (assuming you activate them correctly). But tanks are not getting huge amounts of damage in 30 sec Intervalls, so the click relic lacks continuity (in my opinion).

In the end, i would say it's unclear which second relic is bis (apart from the fortunate redoubt, which because of the static defense gain i would consider bis).

Each relic type (proc, click, healing) has advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the absorb proc relic as a second relic, because it gives more or less continuity in uptime (doesnt have 90 seconds without a single proc), and because its better for high damage phases then the healing relic, but there are many arguments for using a healing or a click relic aswell.

Kadjunga's Avatar


Kadjunga
09.23.2013 , 11:34 PM | #28
thanks thok for the really good explanation on the difference. I will be switching over to the shield absorb proc as well since mitigating ~2.5% damage is better than healing up ~1.5% in my book. More so as well since the healers usually try to keep me topped off so the healing proc relic is kinda wasted there sometimes.

Then again, if i went back to sm / hm fp's and the easier hitting bosses in hm, i would still use the healing proc relic.

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.24.2013 , 01:52 AM | #29
Just a slight thing: When the healer keep you topped of the absorb proc relic is also "wasted" .

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
09.24.2013 , 12:01 PM | #30
Best on above and previous information on relics I use redoubt and absorb for NiM and heal + redoubt for everything else, except 8-man HM Thrasher and 16-man HM.
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