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New to MMO's and having trouble with grouping.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
New to MMO's and having trouble with grouping.

DoctorWild's Avatar


DoctorWild
09.19.2013 , 01:03 AM | #1
This is my first venture into an MMO and I'm having trouble understanding the "code" when it comes to working in groups. I've been booted maybe 7 or 8 times without an explanation as to why I was booted. I'm not trying to post this in here to say that I'm being unfairly booted or anything like that because I'm sure there is a pretty good reason for me to get booted. My problem is that there isn't too many people around on the server that will explain what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it. One of the times I got booted came after the first set of enemies that we encountered. The only advice I've received from anyone is to uncheck the "tank" role in the group finder, that's about it. So I pretty much gave up on doing any of the Flashpoints because of this. I know there are people out there that have played endless hours of these MMO's and understand just about everything about them. But do these people forget when they first started learning this stuff? I mean if they don't want to deal with any "new players" in their group, don't join the group finder, stay with your friend's or guild or whatever. I just wish they were more tolerant, or explain to the new person what they're doing wrong. They don't have to write a novel, just say "you were booted for..." It just sucks that I have to stay with my "class missions" because I know that's not what all of this is about.

If anyone could help me out here, I would greatly appreciate it.

lukenick's Avatar


lukenick
09.19.2013 , 01:13 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by DoctorWild View Post
This is my first venture into an MMO and I'm having trouble understanding the "code" when it comes to working in groups. I've been booted maybe 7 or 8 times without an explanation as to why I was booted. I'm not trying to post this in here to say that I'm being unfairly booted or anything like that because I'm sure there is a pretty good reason for me to get booted. My problem is that there isn't too many people around on the server that will explain what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it. One of the times I got booted came after the first set of enemies that we encountered. The only advice I've received from anyone is to uncheck the "tank" role in the group finder, that's about it. So I pretty much gave up on doing any of the Flashpoints because of this. I know there are people out there that have played endless hours of these MMO's and understand just about everything about them. But do these people forget when they first started learning this stuff? I mean if they don't want to deal with any "new players" in their group, don't join the group finder, stay with your friend's or guild or whatever. I just wish they were more tolerant, or explain to the new person what they're doing wrong. They don't have to write a novel, just say "you were booted for..." It just sucks that I have to stay with my "class missions" because I know that's not what all of this is about.

If anyone could help me out here, I would greatly appreciate it.
We need more information if you really want help. What class are you? What do you know about gear? What do you know about class roles, such as healer, DPS, or tank. There are a lot of people in this game who are willing to help but we need more information if we are going to help you. Good websites that you can research are darthater.com, dulfy.net, or swtor-spy.com

Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
09.19.2013 , 01:32 AM | #3
I'll give you a tips: Get a social guild. Group up with people from that guild, they will often be very helpful towards guildies.
Jennifťr - Marauder
<Reckoning>

The Red Eclipse

DoctorWild's Avatar


DoctorWild
09.19.2013 , 01:45 AM | #4
Wow, that was a pretty quick reply.

RIght now I've got a Level 55 Juggernaut and a 55 Guardian. I figured they were the easiest to "start off with" and I did both of them without doing group stuff.

I feel like I've got a "basic understanding" of gear. I'm not equipping myself with Aim and cunning mods etc.. The way I understand it, you want to try and get your "two main attributes" as high as you can. So strength and endurance are what I need for my two characters right? I don't totally understand how surge, critical, and power levels work, and I don't really expect anyone to explain that to me on here.

As far as understanding roles? I went with the middle "damage" skill tree for both of them. And from what I could gather in the small amount of feedback that I have received, I was tanking when I should have been in a damage role. That was pretty much the last time I tried group finder, it was about a month ago. I just got tired of being booted.

Thank you for the web links.

NerdTech's Avatar


NerdTech
09.19.2013 , 01:48 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DoctorWild View Post
This is my first venture into an MMO and I'm having trouble understanding the "code" when it comes to working in groups. I've been booted maybe 7 or 8 times without an explanation as to why I was booted. I'm not trying to post this in here to say that I'm being unfairly booted or anything like that because I'm sure there is a pretty good reason for me to get booted. My problem is that there isn't too many people around on the server that will explain what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it. One of the times I got booted came after the first set of enemies that we encountered. The only advice I've received from anyone is to uncheck the "tank" role in the group finder, that's about it. So I pretty much gave up on doing any of the Flashpoints because of this. I know there are people out there that have played endless hours of these MMO's and understand just about everything about them. But do these people forget when they first started learning this stuff? I mean if they don't want to deal with any "new players" in their group, don't join the group finder, stay with your friend's or guild or whatever. I just wish they were more tolerant, or explain to the new person what they're doing wrong. They don't have to write a novel, just say "you were booted for..." It just sucks that I have to stay with my "class missions" because I know that's not what all of this is about.

If anyone could help me out here, I would greatly appreciate it.
Unsure about why you were booted but when in a group most expect the following:

- You know how to play your class properly and effectively. Check the many guides online for your class if you're unsure.
- You have, at least, the minimum level of gear required for the flashpoint. This is especially true for level 55 hardmode flashpoints where you should have some pieces of basic gear purchasable via basic commendations.
- You know the tactics for the bosses in the flashpoint. Don't expect pick up groups (PuGs) to take the time to explain them to you. If you're unsure watch guides on youtube and/or check out dufly: http://dulfy.net/category/swtor/flashpoints/
- You're pleasant in the group, basic "hi''s" and "thanks for group" go a long way.

Hope this helps you in your future endeavors.

lukenick's Avatar


lukenick
09.19.2013 , 02:19 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DoctorWild View Post
Wow, that was a pretty quick reply.

RIght now I've got a Level 55 Juggernaut and a 55 Guardian. I figured they were the easiest to "start off with" and I did both of them without doing group stuff.

I feel like I've got a "basic understanding" of gear. I'm not equipping myself with Aim and cunning mods etc.. The way I understand it, you want to try and get your "two main attributes" as high as you can. So strength and endurance are what I need for my two characters right? I don't totally understand how surge, critical, and power levels work, and I don't really expect anyone to explain that to me on here.

As far as understanding roles? I went with the middle "damage" skill tree for both of them. And from what I could gather in the small amount of feedback that I have received, I was tanking when I should have been in a damage role. That was pretty much the last time I tried group finder, it was about a month ago. I just got tired of being booted.

Thank you for the web links.
noxxic.com will help explain what statistics are good for whatever tree you are using. I am assuming that you are a DPS Guardian and Juggernaut so if you want to get back into group finder just make sure that you unclick tank from the option and only click dps. Also as a previous posters stated try to find a good social guild since running flashpoints with guild mates is more fun anyway

Asaxor's Avatar


Asaxor
09.19.2013 , 02:27 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DoctorWild View Post
Wow, that was a pretty quick reply.

RIght now I've got a Level 55 Juggernaut and a 55 Guardian. I figured they were the easiest to "start off with" and I did both of them without doing group stuff.

I feel like I've got a "basic understanding" of gear. I'm not equipping myself with Aim and cunning mods etc.. The way I understand it, you want to try and get your "two main attributes" as high as you can. So strength and endurance are what I need for my two characters right? I don't totally understand how surge, critical, and power levels work, and I don't really expect anyone to explain that to me on here.

As far as understanding roles? I went with the middle "damage" skill tree for both of them. And from what I could gather in the small amount of feedback that I have received, I was tanking when I should have been in a damage role. That was pretty much the last time I tried group finder, it was about a month ago. I just got tired of being booted.

Thank you for the web links.
When you first join the group finder and you're playing a tanking capable class (like in your case) both checkboxes for dd (damage dealer) and tank will be checked per default. If you're dd-specced and don't intend to tank the flashpoint (plus do not even have tanking equip) then you have to uncheck the tank checkbox, otherwise you will be expected to be the tank in the group. Basically, if both options are checked (this really shouldn't be on per default imo) you're telling the group finder that you can assume both roles if required. There's always a lack of tanks, so the group likely expected you to tank the FP which you most likely didn't. That's why they've booted you, I presume, so that a real tank could join them.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
09.19.2013 , 11:22 AM | #8
This was my first MMO too, I have done hundreds of Flashpoints, HMFPs and Operations and until last night I have never been kicked. Even last night I really wasnít kicked, had lag issues and didnít want to be carried so I asked to be kicked and even then I had to beg a little because I have ran with 2 of them before and they were reluctant to kick, but I refuse to be carried.

My advice;

1. Be polite, say hello, goodbye and thank you.
2. Be fair, donít roll need on stuff you do not need.
3. Be respectful, treat others how you want to be treated, donít afk and do your role and allow others to do their roles. Donít pull before tank, if you are there to heal, heal first, dps 2nd. If you want something for a companion, ask before rolling need. Someone makes an inadvertent pull, kill the stuff and donít yell at them. You make an inadvertent pull, kill the stuff and then apologize to the group.
4. Know you class, for HMFPs you donít have to top TORParse leader board or even be great at you rotation, but you do need to generally know your rotation and know your abilities.
5. Personally I donít care if you know the instance or not, but if you donít please donít pretend you do, tell the group you are new to the instance. Then pay attention to their instructions and then do what they tell you to do. If you want to know why you are doing something, well personally I wouldnít ask, I would watch a youtube video afterward if I was really interested.
6. Be geared to the minimum level for the instances, at least.
7. Until you know the instances, keep up with the group. Donít make them wait on you. Gathering crewskill sounds great, but donít unless you know the instance and know you have time to do it. They all run ahead and then you take wrong turn and pull an avoidable mob, someone is probably going to kick you. I have seen people gathering during a HM Ops the first time they were there. Donít do that.
8. Learn to use interrupts. Learn to use defensive cooldowns. Never, ever yell for a healer to heal you (at least donít ask me, I will not let you die, but I will scare you to death if you do).
9. I donít know if people still CC, but if the group does use CCís, donít break them until everything else is dead. Learn kill order, kill stunlockers and enemies that heal. Donít have gold fever as dps. Get stuff off healer.
10. For new players only: Turn on your target of target. If you have a question about what to attack, hit on the other dps and see what they are attacking and kill it.
11. Have fun, donít take everything so serious, if someone else makes a mistake, donít belittle them (even if they did it to you), be the better person and after the instances /ignore them.

Quote: Originally Posted by DoctorWild View Post
W The way I understand it, you want to try and get your "two main attributes" as high as you can. So strength and endurance are what I need for my two characters right?
You canít help endurance, but donít try for endurance. 1. Strength, 2. Accuracy to 100/110 force, 3. Power (much as possible without taking away strength). 4 Surge 5. Crit (now there is some discussion here so read to figure out where you want to go). Personally I have 325. Surge and between 100 and 150 crit, but this isnít my main or even my main dps. I can only pull about 2300 dps on my knight, so I am average at best, but more than enough for any HMFP and most HM OPS fights.

Not really needed, but if you have the credits, augment with Strength augments, it will improve your dps and also improve what random strangers thing about your gear and it is a easy upgrade.
Basically donít tick of the tank, because they have all the power (says the guy that has no toons that are tanks, but I do have 4 healer).

DarthChosen's Avatar


DarthChosen
09.19.2013 , 11:29 AM | #9
Hello and Welcome to SWTOR,

I will break down my tips by category since I do not know the specific cause for you getting booted multiple times. I will start off with Tips, Basic Tanking Abilities, Mechanics, and Gear Explanation. Everything will be pretty broad and use of the guardian abilities will be used (if I can remember the names).

Tips:
Location of your abilities on the quick bar
Knowing your Tank Rotation or DPS Rotation
Tank Taunt (threat gainer)-ability used to gain aggro whether over another player or to ensure mobs are attacking you.

Mobs-enemy npcs

Aggro- the amount of threat a player has

DPS/ Healer Threat drop- ability dps/healer players have to drop their threat

Paying Attention to the group- looking for dps users with threat and your healer (mobs attacking your healer can slow and interrupt them healing you.

Guard: ability tanks have to redirect damage to them from another player. (Guard healer unless you have a dps tanking an enormous amount of damage. Guarding a dps will ease the healing your healer has to do thus providing more heals to the group

Rolling Dps to learn mechanics of the fights- most fights require the dps moving out of the bad stuff usually indicated by a big red circle or ground effects. Meaning you have less responsibility in the group. (except doing damage of course) This can be beneficial for you to learn the fights, and watch another tank, and learn from what he/she does and also make improvements or tweak it to you style. Also it is easier to carry a DPS than it is to carry a tank.

Being friendly and announcing at the beginning of the FP you are new. (Generally this helps, because people will either tell you np and help you out or ask you to leave, better than getting the boot I say)

Running the lower lvl version of FPs to understand mechanics

Some of these tips will be mentioned throughout the rest of the reply. If you need help or explanation of anything not covered just shoot me a Private Message. Lets get started.

Basic Tanking Abilities:
Threat Gainer ( Taunts) (Locate in your Ability Bar under Guardian the AOE threat and single target threat abilities)

Explanation: the Tanks role is to take damage and keep aggro of the enemy/enemies targeted. Sometimes this wont happen with big groups. But activation your AOE threat and say Force Sweep (Jug its smash) doing high damage while in tank form will increase the threat and direct enemies to attack you.

Tank Form:
For guardians it is Sorensu Form, Juggs I dont know but read the ability on your Guardian since they are mirror classes it wont be too hard to find.

Hit Mobs (groups of enemies) first (even bosses): Majority of dps players do not care about this so you need to focus on keeping the pace. If you had played MMOs back in the day (lol) there was a respect for tanks and heals since no one wanted to play them and finding a skilled one was rare.

Tanks set the pace. You need to establish this from the very beginning by attacking the first mob (that needs to be attacked) first. Also learn to judge healers if you are attacking say 4 mobs and not losing an ounce of life. Pull more. Quicker is better.

Back to Abilities: Know your defense CDs, the shield that reflects damage, and more but read your spec and abilities to learn what these are. (cds are cooldowns ex. (making this up idk if this is what it says in game) Undying Rush: 99% damage reduction for 30s in small letters 2 min can be seen) This means you can use that ability every 2 mins. Leading me to my next advice.

Press esc/ Go to Main menu in game, click preferences, User Interface, scroll down until you see Cooldown Texts. Turn that on. What style and size you want displayed is up to you. But for your rotation this is beautiful, it will let you know by the tenths of a second when an ability is able to be used again.

Rotation: Learn your rotation, General for tanks it is always your threat grabber first, been awhile since I tanked but for Guardian I would say charge (group of mobs) aoe taunt ,smash, single taunt any enemy outside of the aoe taunt. force slash or w/e group should be dead. Your taunt should always be in your rotation. Personally I dont care if I still have threat unless it is a boss that drops all threat at some point (after an attack or randomly jumps to another player) I am continously taunting. Some dps will not use there aggro dropper. *Tip* if you see an idiot dps Set Focus to him (UI Editor find the box titled focus target enable it). Do the same for target of target. If you get really comfortable you can set up a modifier to target the target of target and use single taunt. Advanced for a beginner but so you can remember down the road.

Mechanics:
Fights have mechanics which are predetermined abilities and actions that will happen during an encounter. Learn these. Know these. And figure out when to use your defense CDs to counter to the best of you ability. This can separate a crappy tank from a good tank. Best way to learn mechanics in my opinion is rolling dps and watching the fight unfold. It is a lot easier to notice something when you are not the one doing it lol.

Gear and Stats Explanation:
As stated previously it has been awhile since I PvE tanked in this game. So you will need to figure out the current stat priority Guardian Ex. (do not follow this just an example using guardian stats) Ex. Strength/Endurance/Absorption/Defense/Crit etc.

As for advice from either a guardian/jugg tank in game by /general looking for a geared skilled tank to ask a couple of questions. You should get some response. Do not run with one persons advice. Take into account the advice of say 3 people and see what matches up. Generally geared tanks will know what they are talking about but make sure they are geared. Preferably BiS (might jus want to type that)

See if they will meet you in game as well look at their gear find out what armorings/mods/enhancements they switched. Augments they use. Look at their stats if you can. This is where you want to get to so knowing this will help you in the long run. Plus ask them what to focus on first. Either Defense or Strength, Absorption or Endurance etc.

Summary:

Learn you role, know what a tank/dps/healers purpose is

Learn your abilities read them and understand them in accordance with your talent tree.

Develop a rotation

Pay attention to the Flashpoint/Operation

Roll DPS/ or learn mechanics of the fights via Youtube/SWTOR Spy/ etc or running low-level fps that you can solo

Be Polite and notify group you are new

Most Importantly HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope this helps and if you have any questions reply or send a PM
"Good tactics can save even the worst strategy. Bad tactics will destroy even the best strategy."-General George S. Patton, Jr.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
09.19.2013 , 01:06 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthChosen View Post
DPS/ Healer Threat drop- ability dps/healer players have to drop their threat
4 healers here, geared to the teeth on my sawbones and I can say without a doubt I am not going to pull threat from tank or dps for my healing. I can also say, threat dump or reduction is not going to help me except in a few situations in ops that have aggro dumps. I was told to use them on NiM TWH for some reason, mine is not to question, mine is just to heal as the group says. Otherwise the my aggro dump is only good for a 1/2 amusing animation. It will not get rid of those attacking me if they have not been taunted or attacked by dps and/or tank. It is just a useless as someone guarding me for aggro reason. Any unattacked/untaunted mob is going to go after the healer. It does not matter if I have 100% present threat or .00000001% threat, if they are untaunted and unattacked by everyone else, then .00000001 is still more than 0.000000000, so reducing it means nothing. More important is for dps/tanks to know kill order and their role. Now I can use disapearing act to drop combat, but the moment I unstealth and pop a heal they are back on me.

Gold Fever a killer of Healers.

As to threat droup by dps, yes that should be part of the roation in group play, especially during/after opening.