Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Boarding party final convo misogyny


MollyDresden's Avatar


MollyDresden
09.13.2013 , 10:30 PM | #1
I have to say, I really wish the final boarding party convo didn't have the "someone shut this woman up" option. Every freaking time (okay, 95% of the time) when I do that flashpoint and don't win the roll, I have to hear that stupid line and watch the guys in my group LOL about woman-beating. Okay, I get it, it's a game. They're playing evil characters. They do a lot of killing and whatnot, so simply getting hit shouldn't matter. But there's a difference, and the fact that so many guys get such a kick out of watching a woman get pistol-whipped really makes me kind of sick and despair of humanity. Because here's the thing, guys: it's not funny. No, really, it's not.

I just did a HM of this for my daily. Everything was going along fine, and when one of the guys in the group responded to the first convo with the Jedi lady, where she threatens us, with "Let's gang rape her", I let it go and didn't say anything. When we got to the final convo, one of the guys said, "best part", and I knew he was talking about that line, because so many people just think it's so dang funny to watch a woman get smacked in the face. So I choose one of the other options and win the roll. So does he just let it go and move on with the convo so we can finish the dang flashpoint? No. He freaking stops the convo, says "whoa" like I just did something really disgusting, and restarts it. I point out that not everyone's misogynistic. He and his friend kick me. Kick me right out of the group for not going along with the woman-beating hilarity.

It's not enough that I have to constantly listen to and see this scene? Now I get kicked from a FP at the very end of it for not going along with it? Is Bioware trying to make this game as unfriendly an environment for women as possible? Because nothing about that is cool.

Falver's Avatar


Falver
09.13.2013 , 10:43 PM | #2
While I agree that the people you ran with were misogynist, I have difficulty seeing that conversation choice itself like that. Many conversation choices in many of the imperial classes have something similar. Slap him, punch her, torture this one. I don't know how many times I had the option to punch someone during my agent's storyline simply because they were making unnecessary noise. That conversation choice doesn't exist to alienate female gamers but is rather, in my opinion, just another part of the sith theme.
The Harbinger
Claimed - Thirteenth - Falver
<Phobos> is recruiting to fill in multiple raid groups. Apply at http://fearphobos.com/

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
09.13.2013 , 10:45 PM | #3
id laugh if it was a guy too; its about the pistol whipping, not the gender

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFZG8KQJni8

iimagiicii's Avatar


iimagiicii
09.13.2013 , 11:39 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
id laugh if it was a guy too; its about the pistol whipping, not the gender

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFZG8KQJni8
+1 good sir.... and OP is debbie downer.
Back and worse than ever
Cry'sta <Postmortem> Operative
Gen'kai <Postmortem> Mercenary
Superbeast <Postmortem> Juggernaut

Cr'ysta <The Covenant> Scoundrel

Erotophobia Legacy

FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
09.14.2013 , 01:15 AM | #5
Quit looking for reasons to get offended. Don't place blame on Bioware for players saying things you don't like. In life, people will say things you don't like often, so get used to it. Ignore exists if you just can't stomach seeing offensive text.
<Death and Taxes>

Mireleni's Avatar


Mireleni
09.14.2013 , 02:50 AM | #6
I hear you. Sure, this same situation could have been played out with a man--that is, a "someone shut this guy up" option, where the man gets pistol-whipped. But it's not--it's a woman. Now, I know there are plenty of places elsewhere in the game where players are given the option to smack/torture both male and female NPCs. But consider the following:
1) This is a mission that most players will repeat many times, and it is necessarily multiplayer. If it were a one-time quest suitable for solo play, someone might chuckle (if they were so inclined), move on, and forget about it. The repeatability allows the negative behavior to grow and turn into habit. The multiplayer aspect allows like-minded players to feed off of each other, and pulls along with them even those who disagree. The prominence of this conversation makes it problematic.
2) This game was not released into a vacuum. It was released into a culture in which violence against women, by men, is a huge problem (while the reverse happens as well, it is much less common). It was released into a video gaming culture with a terrible reputation for treatment of women--as characters in the games, as players, and as industry professionals. I'm sure I don't need to get into that here. Because of this culture, the violence displayed here against a female character is going to be interpreted differently, and it is going to be more damaging than a similar situation played out with a male character. A man gets pistol whipped, people may laugh. A woman gets pistol whipped, people may laugh...and talk about rape, and love the situation so much that it's worth restarting a conversation and kicking a group member over it.

I don't think whoever wrote the scene intended it as a misogynistic moment--these are bad guys after all, blah blah. And if it just went by in a one-time class mission or something, then I don't think it would be a huge deal. But they essentially made violence against a woman (outside of fair combat, of course--it is a fight-centric game) a repeatable group activity that has apparently become a highlight for some players. That is a mistake that shows a lack of foresight on BioWare's part, and unfortunately it helps bring out a negative aspect of our community. The bad ones may be a small proportion of the community, but they are vocal and noxious. The most the community can do is choose other dialogue options and speak out against things like those awful guys joking about "******" the Jedi. It's probably too much to ask groupfinder pugs to choose other dialogue options, though it could be worth mentioning to guildies if you're so inclined. BioWare...I know they have other things that are probably higher priority for them, so I don't really see them doing anything. I'd say get to level 55 and kiss Boarding Party goodbye--but the fact is, you shouldn't have to.

TL;DR: This game is being played in a culture in which violence against women is a problem, and in a gaming culture that has a terrible reputation for treatment of women--characters and players. Because of this culture the conversation described is not exactly the same regardless of the gender of the subject; even if you don't see it as gender-specific, others do. The repeatability and group nature of this conversation combined with these negative aspects of the culture breed problematic behaviors in some and serve to marginalize others. It is an unfortunate situation.
Visit my Vacation Retreat on Tatooine!
Revan: You just called me a meatbag again!
HK-47: Explanation: It's just that...you have all these squishy parts, master. And all that water! How the constant sloshing doesn't drive you mad, I have no idea.

Mireleni's Avatar


Mireleni
09.14.2013 , 02:57 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Falver View Post
While I agree that the people you ran with were misogynist, I have difficulty seeing that conversation choice itself like that. Many conversation choices in many of the imperial classes have something similar. Slap him, punch her, torture this one. I don't know how many times I had the option to punch someone during my agent's storyline simply because they were making unnecessary noise. That conversation choice doesn't exist to alienate female gamers but is rather, in my opinion, just another part of the sith theme.
People are welcome to have as much fun as they want slapping, punching, and torturing NPCs in their own personal story missions, but repeatable group content gets more prominence and subjects players to other people's choices. In an ideal world, the gender of the NPC wouldn't matter here. However, given the OP's experience, it seems the negative treatment of women by a contingent of the gaming community has seeped into the situation, making the gender matter. The conversation choice doesn't exist to alienate female gamers, but it appears it can be used that way. Something to consider.
Visit my Vacation Retreat on Tatooine!
Revan: You just called me a meatbag again!
HK-47: Explanation: It's just that...you have all these squishy parts, master. And all that water! How the constant sloshing doesn't drive you mad, I have no idea.

Mireleni's Avatar


Mireleni
09.14.2013 , 03:01 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
id laugh if it was a guy too; its about the pistol whipping, not the gender
I'm glad that you see it that way. Given the rape comments witnessed by the OP, it seems not everyone thinks the same way. If a conversation is problematic for a portion of the community, does that make it a problem? It's worth discussing, at least.

Quote: Originally Posted by iimagiicii View Post
+1 good sir.... and OP is debbie downer.
Given that the forums are full of complaints about basically every aspect of the game, I do hope you've replied to all of those threads with similar comments of the OP being a "debbie downer." Go to the bug reports, even, and have yourself a good time. My point is, telling someone they shouldn't be upset usually doesn't itself fix the problem or make them less upset. It's not very constructive.

Quote: Originally Posted by FridgeLM View Post
Quit looking for reasons to get offended. Don't place blame on Bioware for players saying things you don't like. In life, people will say things you don't like often, so get used to it. Ignore exists if you just can't stomach seeing offensive text.
People aren't looking for reasons to get offended. You might notice that the OP wasn't exactly enjoying the situation, so why would she be looking for reasons to not enjoy herself? BioWare doesn't make people say terrible things, but they do have a hand in crafting the game environment in which players interact. Of course in life people will say things you don't like, and we do get used to it, but those people should get used to us fighting back. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to call people ******es. A gym has the right to make rules of conduct for the people who come there to work out or play, and the patrons of the gym have the right to protest if they perceive unacceptable behavior. The same is true here. Ignore exists but it is a band-aid to put on after the fact. Some damage has already been done, and it won't prevent future damage by others. Maybe this discussion could serve to help prevent future damage.
Visit my Vacation Retreat on Tatooine!
Revan: You just called me a meatbag again!
HK-47: Explanation: It's just that...you have all these squishy parts, master. And all that water! How the constant sloshing doesn't drive you mad, I have no idea.

FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
09.14.2013 , 03:25 AM | #9
If you have to type that much analysis about a couple of morons and try to assign blame to the nondiscriminatory violence in a video game cutscene, you need better things to do with your time.

Quote:
People aren't looking for reasons to get offended.
Yes they are. If the captain were a man we'd hear complaints that not enough women are represented in positions of authority or presented as capable.

There's literally no way to win with social justice warriors.
<Death and Taxes>

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
09.14.2013 , 03:39 AM | #10
so what, remove any scenes that involve the beating of women? this is an empire that practices genocide, slavery, racism and other pointless cruelties. Does it seem at all realistic for them to decide to not hit women, especially their enemy that was about to kill them all?
Or should we just remove female antagonists entirely, since the rape comments started when she first showed up. Then people would complain bioware was being sexist.

basically, you can't control other people, and censorship doesn't work.

If something offends you, spacebar through it or close chat. Being offended doesn't mean that you have a right to have things changed to suit your tastes

And out of curiosity, is the cutscene is false emperor where you can choke the animoid, anti-male or anti-alien? I'm thinking of making a sarcastic complaint.