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Rise of the Hutt Cartel Free to Subscribers Starting September 12th!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Rise of the Hutt Cartel Free to Subscribers Starting September 12th!
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vincent_rig's Avatar


vincent_rig
09.11.2013 , 07:32 AM | #491
Quote: Originally Posted by rhiarose View Post
Really? we are complaining about a $10 expansion pack that everyone who purchased at early access had access to for 6 months?

First off you are not "entitled" to anything, the agreement you accepted when you accepted the TOS etc is for Bioware to provide a product and give you access to it for the fee agreed on. Legally they don't even HAVE to offer you a refund, because the agreements do not include a "refund for whatever I feel i'm entitled to" clause. Bioware offered a product for a price, you purchased that product, they delivered it.

I suppose I should drive down to the dealership where I purchased my car and demand a refund since the model year has now depreciated in value and is being sold for less than I Bought it for.

Bottom Line, Rise was priced at $10 when you purchased it, its now depreciated in value and is now $0 dollars to people who pay monthly for the game.

Let me give you a little perspective for those of you who are complaining and are unfamiliar with what a real "rip off" scam is.

That OTHER Star Wars MMO, you remember it? Star Wars Galaxies? well any of you who played it remember Trials of Obi-Won.

a $20 expansion pack released on Nov 1, 2005, one that was advertised with content for all the wonderful classes SWG launched with, classes that on the SAME DAY as the xpac launch were REMOVED from the game by the infamous NGE after they had happily taken our money and promised us content for those classes, KNOWING all along they were going to remove them. a radical game overhaul like NGE doesn't happen in a week.

That is a willfully perpetrated scam if I've ever seen one.

Giving what amounts to a six month early access to an xpac for a piddly $10 bucks is NOT a willfully perpetrated scam, its called, well Early Access. It may not have been intended to be early access, but that's what it is.

But the bottom line is, they owe you absolutely nothing. You are "entitled" to exactly what the contract you signed with Bioware outlines, you pay, they give you a product. Loyalty rewards are a wonderful idea, but they are hardly required by law, No company has to offer you any kind of "loyalty" rewards. I dont get a discount on my gas just because I fill at the same station every time.

I would even possibly go so far as to say they DO owe people who bought the game within the last 30 days a refund because the decision was probably made within those 30 days and not announced till 3 days before it happens. But hat is of course my opinion, and im sure many will disagree.

What isn't is that purchases of Rise were a Business Transaction, that is all this is, not "arent we special, we stuck with you, now reward us". Your reward is that you get to keep playing the game your paying for and enjoying and they get to keep producing more content for it. Content they are now NOT charging subscribers for.
I do not think this discussion is about what is legal or not? It is just about respect for the people who invest in this game.

To pick in on your example of the car dealer. Lets say I have bought all my cars at this guys shop and he gets to do a montly maintenance as well for an honest price. 40 days ago I bought the newest car at his shop, and today he gives it away for free. Next to that, he gives away free options on that car to anyone who bought it the last 30 days with the value of that car, and I just get a key chain for my years of loyal customership. Legally the dealer has done nothing wrong, but this was the last time I bought my car at his shop. Ofcourse this is an extreme example, but it illustrates what it means to maintain a good relation with your customers.

About your example on the gas station. Well, I do get a discount if I fill up at the same station each time, and many shops, stores or services have some sort of loyalty bonus, customer card or rewards for returning customers. Although they are not legally bound to it, they do it out of respect for their customers and to ensure they keep coming back which is ofcourse better for them in the long run. And this is where Bioware fails, their lack of respect for people who have been sticking with this game and all its flaws will cause them to eventually abandon TOR for the competition while this could have been very easily avoided.

If a marketing stunt like this causes this much controverse, you have done a very bad job as a marketing department, it's as simple as that.

Brewski's Avatar


Brewski
09.11.2013 , 07:36 AM | #492
I don't have a problem with this, to be honest. I preordered RotHC as a subscriber, and I've gotten my $10 worth out of it in that time, so I don't feel I need any sort of refund for it. The coins are, as many people have pointed out, simply a partial refund for people who have bought it in the last month so they don't feel like they wasted their money. My guess is that they are handing out the update to allow people to properly level before the next update rolls out. (SSSP maybe?)

That said, Bioware could have handled this better. Maybe combining this news with a general subscribers appreciation update of some kind. Or maybe by announcing this well in advance instead of trying to "repay" recent purchasers. If the announcement had been that RotHC is being discounted, and will be free for subscribers beginning in three months in preparation for a new expansion, I don't think the reaction on the forums would have been so ... violent.

Ultimately what bothers me about this is not what they are doing so much as how they rolled it out. This community is not hard to predict (give something away == everyone who doesn't get it screams) so you'd think they would have gotten out ahead of it.

Devrius's Avatar


Devrius
09.11.2013 , 07:43 AM | #493
Why a freaking title?! Seriously they didn't get the memo after the KOTOR anniversary? We don't *like* meaningless titles, specailly when they read "sucker" like the one they are giving us now.

Why not a mount, a pet or I don't know, the same CC Johnny come lately got.

"But you guys got the holo statue", so give it to everyone who bought this now free expansion, I won't mind.


For those saying that it was obivous that it was going to be free eventually, it's funny how I didn't see any pop-up warnings or anything when buying it, at no time I was told I would be paying for "early access" only...

Trase-Kor's Avatar


Trase-Kor
09.11.2013 , 07:50 AM | #494
Quote: Originally Posted by rhiarose View Post
I suppose I should drive down to the dealership where I purchased my car and demand a refund since the model year has now depreciated in value and is being sold for less than I Bought it for.

Bottom Line, Rise was priced at $10 when you purchased it, its now depreciated in value and is now $0 dollars to people who pay monthly for the game.
Kind of a key difference there, don't ya think? Multiple key differences, in fact..
First, your car depreciates in value through no real fault of the dealership. If Bioware releases another shiny new game, SWTOR and ROTHC only depreciate a very small amount, likewise your car doesn't depreciate that much because a newer shinier version comes out. But beyond that; the dealership cannot possibly be at fault if your car has depreciated sharply from nearly 100% of it's starting value to 0 in the span of a few days unless they are now giving it away completely for free.

Quote: Originally Posted by rhiarose View Post
Really? we are complaining about a $10 expansion pack that everyone who purchased at early access had access to for 6 months?

First off you are not "entitled" to anything, the agreement you accepted when you accepted the TOS etc is for Bioware to provide a product and give you access to it for the fee agreed on. Legally they don't even HAVE to offer you a refund, because the agreements do not include a "refund for whatever I feel i'm entitled to" clause. Bioware offered a product for a price, you purchased that product, they delivered it.
But we are not saying we're "entitled". We're saying they've hurt our loyalty to them because it feels like we're being slighted and taken for granted.

I'm not a doomsayer, so I won't say that subscriber numbers are going to plummet or the game is going to die or Bioware is going to the great game-developer-beyond or something silly like that... but they are potentially hurting their future profit margin if they ever intend to sell an expansion again. I didn't pay for early access, for example. I paid for access because I knew I would eventually get to the point where I would be accessing Makeb and doing that content, so I "knew" I'd be spending it eventually.

As of the announcement I have one character above level 50. That character is level 51. I've barely started Makeb - having finished maybe the very first area for one faction on said character. Because I play a lot of alts, I spent most of my SWTOR time since the X-pac was released on them. Had I known that this purchase was for early-access I wouldn't have bothered getting it. I haven't gotten my ten dollars out of it, and now it's worth a title that I have no Zombie characters to put it on. If I had been able to pre-purchase it and thus recieved the pre-order bonuses for the same price I wouldn't be complaining because the value of my purchase would not be zero. So what am I supposed to do when the next paid expansion arrives?

The correct answer is that if the pre-order bonuses are not worth what they're asking for, or I miss the pre-order period; I will not buy it. The expectation is that it will become free and I will not have missed anything of value by waiting. I did not pay for early access, because early access to me is not worth ten dollars. For that matter, had I known it was early access I would have treated my time with it differently. Again; this particular piece of information was not revealed (not that I think they were secretly planning this the entire time). This is my reason; other people will have their own reasons which may or may not be similar.

The simple fact is that future decisions are made based on past events. This event is a discouragement towards future spending. Bioware loses potential income and net happiness is diminished.

homsikpanda's Avatar


homsikpanda
09.11.2013 , 07:57 AM | #495
why should people who pre-ordered it and got to play it for 5 months, be reward over and above the ability to play it for 5 months and all the swag, loot, gear, extra content etc etc they've accumulated for 5 months and got their $10 worth of entertainment (that's $2 a month, seriously, where else can you get 5 months worth of entertainment for that cheap?)
compared to the people who bought it, but haven't gotten to enjoy it yet, only to find out it's now free?

it's a huge slap in the face that i payed $10 for it last week and now everybody is getting it for free. waste of $10 if you ask me, i could have easily used that $10 to buy 1050 CC coins instead! Dx.....

oh wait....


Quote: Originally Posted by Trase-Kor View Post
But we are not saying we're "entitled". We're saying they've hurt our loyalty to them because it feels like we're being slighted.
slighted how? how are you any less slighted then the people who just paid $10 and didn't get even the slightest inkling of their money's worth out of it yet?

Devrius's Avatar


Devrius
09.11.2013 , 08:02 AM | #496
Quote: Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
why should people who pre-ordered it and got to play it for 5 months, be reward over and above the ability to play it for 5 months and all the swag, loot, gear, extra content etc etc they've accumulated for 5 months and got their $10 worth of entertainment (that's $2 a month, seriously, where else can you get 5 months worth of entertainment for that cheap?)
compared to the people who bought it, but haven't gotten to enjoy it yet, only to find out it's now free?

it's a huge slap in the face that i payed $10 for it last week and now everybody is getting it for free. waste of $10 if you ask me, i could have easily used that $10 to buy 1050 CC coins instead! Dx.....

oh wait....




slighted how? how are you any less slighted then the people who just paid $10 and didn't get even the slightest inkling of their money's worth out of it yet?
I stopped reading after swag...

homsikpanda's Avatar


homsikpanda
09.11.2013 , 08:05 AM | #497
Quote: Originally Posted by Devrius View Post
I stopped reading after swag...
i didn't say swag

jwspartan's Avatar


jwspartan
09.11.2013 , 08:06 AM | #498
Aye well my opinion is this that myself a loyal sub since beta have put loads of work into this game and yes i got the moneys worth out out of the ROTHC, i don't feel entitled to the money for recent people buying it i just feel that giving us a title is a slap in the face because its of no value to most people now if we had something else etc speeder or anything else that a f2p couldn't get without subbing i wouldn't feel as the same but due to that that why its a bitter pill to swallow, ive loved this game and playing this game with my guild i just wish that they would treat us players who have been playing since the start with a bit more appreciation, this sub appreciation stuff is ridiculous giving us the ability to get a title whoop tee do, give us something that means more then that for example discounts on cc stuff or a pet or speeder, Im not saying that as subs we should have everything but treat us better because we were loyal to you since the start.

Lacedemon's Avatar


Lacedemon
09.11.2013 , 08:06 AM | #499
Did no one see this coming? Many other games have done this in the past; most famously WoW which has made the earlier expansions free.

The game is at the point where you NEED the expansion to enjoy the game and its mostly defunct content now. Most people only go to Makeb because they have to; dailies for money, still need 72's from TC etc.... S&V HM is about to be released and most of the other 55 stuff introduced is redundant or rehashed level 50 stuff like *yawn* TFB: \

In addition, in fact imho even though it could well be seen a cheeky to do it only 6months and not 12months or w/e; this is a good thing for those of us at endgame as it increases the pool of players. More 55's means more people to lolGroupFinder with or a bigger pool of players to recruit from. Any MMO is only as strong as the community that plays it and this only increase and enhances it.

Chances are if you did not have the expansion back then and where playing at endgame you would be bored stiff, barely anyone who is unhappy at this would not have got the expansion even if you knew it was going to be free. You would have paid or left rather than sit around bored for 6months wasting sub money not being to enjoy anything in game with it all being moved to 55.
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
The Red Eclipse EU - GM of Drop it like it's Hoth - http://dilih.eu/
World First TFB and S&V NiM Clear
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Devrius's Avatar


Devrius
09.11.2013 , 08:07 AM | #500
Quote: Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
why should people who pre-ordered it and got to play it for 5 months, be reward over and above the ability to play it for 5 months and all the swag,
Right there.