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Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
09.09.2013 , 10:32 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
8-10k for 20-30 seconds on a Operation Boss?! Not a chance at all. Probably you get that number if you hit 5 targets with your orbital, but 100% not on a single target. With my sniper i parse about 3100 on dummy and i have a maximum of 4k-4,5k dps after 20-30 seconds.
I didn't have opportunity to experiment with pulling aggro on operations bosses but in FP's I can see that numbers if I pre-cast flyby and pop relic/adrenal. Then it starts dropping rapidly at stays at around 4k for a while. Probably on operation's boss it will be slightly lower due to resist chance. Maybe it's a bug but it's what torparse metter showed a few times.

Anyway my point is it is not really possible to pull aggro as ranged if tank knows what he is doing unless you try to do it on purpose.
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THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.09.2013 , 10:51 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
Definetly a good option indeed



Hmm ... 50k threat is tricky. Yesterday I did a TfB NiM on my slinger where I ripped of our vanguardtank in the 1st few seconds. I used my attackadrenal, serp assault proc and inspire. In 10 seconds time I generated 54k threat. Thats with a guard and with a bugging surrender (which I will report as a bug in a seperate post).

@ the guy laughing at tanks who guard healers first:
How would you suggest determining which dps rips the most aggro? HP? no option, could be high endurence mods. High gear? he could be not very skilled.
On your parse its 12 seconds for 54 k threat. (and actually starting combat 8 seconds after the tank started which i didnt count in either) As a rdps you would need 130% of the tanks threat to rip aggro of him. Even without a guard that would be less then 50k threat in 10 seconds.
I don't know how much threat vanguard tanks can dish out in the very first seconds, but i never have problems with threat in nim Content (as assassin) when guarding our mdps (we don't run NiM content with more then 2 mdps).
On rare occasions (when some of my attacks in the very beginning missed) i have to use my single target taunt.

@Azrael: I agree with you, rdps shouldn't be able to rip aggro from a tank.
Mdps (from my experience, especially marauders in their burst spec) can rip aggro from you, but you can either guard them and use your taunts.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
09.09.2013 , 11:04 AM | #23
Point taken. Alltough its actually 110% for me since I'm scatterbombing which places me within the 4 meters range. Unless I'm mistaken 130 is at above 4 meters range.

But yes, Amen to let the tank decide who he guards in flashpoints, just have a good time even if the guard might be suboptimally placed
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Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
09.09.2013 , 11:19 AM | #24
My level 24 guardian has no aoe threat, no aoe taunt absolutely nothing. I will guard the healer because when I leap in 5 mobs and do my thing, if I lose aggro, the first one to be butchered is the healer. So reducing his threat by 25% is something to my advantage.


At endgame, tanked all content in both 8 and 16, I will of course put the guard on the highest damage dealer on bosses and back on healer on trash. Tanking 101 I am afraid. I also saw a post here saying that if you guard someone at Kephess, during the dreadguard bomb, as a tank you take some of the damage. This is not correct. Damage reflected within 15 meters is a pure pvp tribute of the guard mechanic. The exception in PVE where damage gets redirect is, of course, environment damage received while guarding that person. This is redirected, mob and boss damage is not. Run a test, let someone who is guarded get aggro and see if you share the damage. You will not.


Furthermore, in PVE guard has a 30m effect to lower threat and not a 15 m effect. I ran some tests at The final boss in TFB and this proved the case. Yogi and BooBoo also are a good example when back in the days guarding a ranged damage dealer and you , as tank, moving to 30m would still keep his threat lower.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
09.09.2013 , 11:38 AM | #25
I like guard who i think needs it.

Sometimes its the healer, sometimes its the DPS.....More often its the one that whines the most or the guy that wearing the green level 45 earpiece in Athiss.
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alxmdsn's Avatar


alxmdsn
09.09.2013 , 12:01 PM | #26
Only time guard on healers is really more useful is in HM tfb. When we get pulled up to the platforms our tanks will guard the healers. It seems like when healers go up and start healing right away you run into a serious aggro problem
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Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
09.09.2013 , 12:58 PM | #27
I hate to break it to you guys but for every 1 point that a healer heals they gain 2 threat, if you deal 1 point of damage your threat goes up by 1 point. So Healers need guard because they generate the most threat. End of Story.

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
09.09.2013 , 01:44 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by FlyinSpaghetti View Post
I mean I've seen instances where there's been two 72 geared sents/gunslingers and the tank goes ahead and chucks the guard on some lower geared healer.

Is there any reason why this still happens? Bad advice become force of habit perhaps?
I have a Guardian Tank, and lately, because of the spiky damage a Shadow Tank takes, I find myself tossing Guard on them(Ops only and in certain instances) and pulling the aggro of whatever they were pulling just to save the Shadow.

Other than that, I usually don't guard anyone, because I can hold aggro. That's the point of a tank, work your rotations and cool-downs and you shouldn't have a problem.....ever.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
09.09.2013 , 02:03 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
I hate to break it to you guys but for every 1 point that a healer heals they gain 2 threat, if you deal 1 point of damage your threat goes up by 1 point. So Healers need guard because they generate the most threat. End of Story.
5/10

You lose some points for being too obvious, but nice attempt.
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nlashbrook's Avatar


nlashbrook
09.09.2013 , 02:13 PM | #30
It depends on the situation really. If it's large trash mobs where there are lots and lots of adds the tank might put a guard on a healer to avoid them pulling from the healing agro. Most of the time a guard isn't really needed all that often